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10 PACIFICA NATIONAL

11 BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING

12 SUNDAY, MARCH 1, 1998

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21 REPORTED BY: LINDA FRAZEUR

22 CSR. NO. 6697

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1

2 Meeting of the Pacifica National Board of

3 Directors held at the Le Montrose Hotel conference room,

4 900 Hammond, West Hollywood, California, on Sunday, March 1,

5 1998, commencing before Linda Frazeur, CSR No. 6697.

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9 APPEARANCES:

10 Dr. Mary Frances Berry, Chairperson

David Acosta, KPFT Representative

11 Roberta Brooks, Secretary

Dorothy Nasatir, KPFK Representative

12 Frank Millspaugh, WBAI Representative

13 Charles McClung, KPFK Local Advisory Board Chair

Loretta Ross, At Large

14 Micheal Palmer, KPFT Representative

Pete Bramson, KPFA Representative

15 Cheryl Fabio-Bradford, KPFA Representative

Robert Robinson, WPFW Representative

16 Ken Ford, WPFW Representative

June Makela, Treasurer

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1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA - SUNDAY, MARCH 1, 1998

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4 MS. BERRY: This is the Pacifica National Board of

5 Directors meeting, and the first item on the agenda is the

6 seating of members. There are some nominees from the LABs to

7 be seated at this meeting. I open the floor for nominations.

8 Yes, Frank.

9 MR. MILLSPAUGH: It would be my pleasure to nominate as

10 a representative from WBAI Andrea Cisco who has extensive

11 background in consulting on a range of issues, especially

12 around human resources managing the workforce. She has been

13 active with WBAI -- Well, more recently as an LAB member,

14 but before that, helped us to do an audience profile based

15 upon a -- upon an instrument that had been terribly

16 designed. And she managed to pull it together in a coherent

17 manner.

18 I think she's the kind of person who would be

19 able to provide substance and guidance, not only to this

20 organization as a whole, but to our efforts to provide a -- a

21 clear directive concerning community ascertainment to the

22 local advisory board, and would be an asset in every way.

23 And I nominate Andrea Cisco.

24 MS. BERRY: Do I hear a second?

25 MS. NASATIR: I second.

0004

1 MS. BERRY: Any discussion?

2 All in favor, indicate by saying aye.

3 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

4 MS. BERRY: So ordered.

5 MR. ACOSTA: I'm happy to nominate Micheal Palmer, LAB

6 representative -- as LAB representative from KPFT. He has

7 extensive knowledge in real estate, has been in the real

8 estate business for many, many years. He's been on several

9 nonprofit boards in Houston. Most of you already know him

10 because he's been to these meetings for the last two years or

11 so as an alternate. And I'm proud to put his name in

12 nomination. I think he's an asset to the organization now

13 and will be in the future.

14 MS. BERRY: Do I hear a second?

15 MS. BRADFORD: Second.

16 MS. BERRY: Any discussion?

17 All in favor, indicate by saying aye.

18 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

19 MS. BERRY: So ordered.

20 Any additional nominations?

21 MR. FORD: I would like to nominate Mr. Robert Robinson.

22 Rob is a political person. He has been campaign manager for

23 a lot of local politicians in the Washington, D.C., area;

24 also served as an executive assistant to the city council,

25 and Rob himself has been a candidate for the city council.

0005

1 He will offer invaluable assistance as far as the Pacifica

2 board in dealing with community groups, and I, therefore,

3 submit his name in nomination.

4 MS. BERRY: Do I hear a second?

5 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Second.

6 MS. BERRY: Any discussion?

7 All in favor, indicate by saying aye.

8 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

9 MS. BERRY: So ordered.

10 Additional nominations?

11 MS. BRADFORD: I'd like to nominate Pete Bramson, local

12 LAB member from KPFA to this board -- LAB member for the last

13 ten years. He's got a technical background, has experience

14 with human resources.

15 MS. BERRY: Do I hear a second?

16 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Second.

17 MS. BERRY: Any discussion?

18 All in favor, indicate by saying aye.

19 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

20 MS. BERRY: Objection?

21 So ordered.

22 Any additional nominations?

23 MS. CISCO: Frank Millspaugh for WBAI. I think his

24 record stands for him.

25 MS. BERRY: Do I hear a second?

0006

1 MS. NASATIR: Second.

2 MS. BERRY: Any discussion?

3 All in favor, indicate by saying aye.

4 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

5 MS. BERRY: Opposed?

6 So ordered.

7 Any additional nominations?

8 I guess not.

9 I haven't missed anybody?

10 MS. BROOKS: I asked if we needed to formally seat

11 Dorothy Nasatir and Ralph McKnight as alternates again.

12 MR. MCCLUNG: That's true. Are they alternates in

13 perpetuity?

14 MS. BERRY: Why don't we do it again? Somebody

15 nominate --

16 I need a motion to do that.

17 MR. MILLSPAUGH: So moved.

18 MS. BERRY: Second?

19 MR. ACOSTA: Second.

20 MS. BERRY: Discussion?

21 All in favor, indicate by saying aye.

22 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

23 MS. BERRY: Opposed?

24 So ordered.

25 The next item is the Executive Committee

0007

1 report. And I will briefly give the Executive Committee

2 report. Our executive director is ill and is not here

3 today.

4 I want to tell you that the process of

5 evaluation of the executive director, which is done annually,

6 is under way. There have been surveys done. The Executive

7 Committee has the process under consideration.

8 The other thing that I want to tell you is that

9 I sent out on behalf of the Executive Committee a number of

10 letters to the chairs of LABs asking for information about

11 the rosters of the LAB, information about the terms of

12 members, and telling them that certain people’s terms had

13 expired, and they needed to be replaced; and in many cases I've

14 received no response. But I'm telling those of you who are

15 LAB representatives here on the board that you should check

16 with your LAB -- I have had responses from a couple, but I won't

17 take up time here. This is just bookkeeping,

18 housekeeping information, but we very much need it.

19 So could you check with your individual LAB

20 chair and find out whether they have responded and, if

21 they've not, encourage them to give us the basic information

22 concerning the names and so on.

23 Since we're in Los Angeles, I want to thank the

24 people in Los Angeles for being very gracious to us while

25 we're here.

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1 Let me just say that at the direction of the

2 Executive Committee, we've been in the process of trying to

3 get the LAB up and going with an expanded membership in this

4 area. And the Executive Committee asked Dorothy Nasatir in

5 March -- to work with the chair of the

6 nominating committee who is David Aedelson -- to try to add

7 members consistent with the criteria we

8 have for people we would like to have on the LAB as it

9 relates to the national. That is, the report of

10 the Executive Committee.

11 For the executive director, you have a report in

12 your packet, and it was discussed at the Executive Committee.

13 If any board members have questions about any

14 of it, you may ask those questions, but I will not go

15 into a discussion of it in the interest of time. Many

16 of these items have been discussed at the various committee

17 meetings that we've already had.

18 So if there is no objection, I will go

19 on to the next report which is that of the Finance

20 Committee. And I would turn it over to the chair of the

21 Finance Committee and the treasurer, June Makela.

22 June, please.

23 MS. MAKELA: Mary, I am going to hand out some

24 materials that are part of the report. And people who are on

25 the Finance Committee already have these, so I have copies

0009

1 for board members who are not on the Finance Committee.

2 MS. TILSON: May I have a show of hands?

3 MS. MAKELA: People could raise their hands who are not

4 on the Finance Committee.

5 Just to begin, because we had a tight schedule

6 yesterday, I didn't have a chance to make a few positive

7 remarks, which I'd like to do to balance, you know, the

8 sometimes sobering discussion that happens in the Finance

9 Committee.

10 I really want to commend the general managers

11 who had, as far as I can understand from the reports and

12 figures, pretty much across-the-board excellent winter fund

13 drives. So while we have tight budgets, we seem to be

14 meeting income projections fairly well,

15 and a couple of stations going well beyond

16 them.

17 I want to again recognize the work of WPFW and

18 Bessie Walsh. On behalf of the committee, I really want to

19 commend that. It is really exciting to the Finance Committee

20 to look at the income that is being generated and be able to

21 project continued growth and stability. So, congratulations.

22 I also want to recognize, although we've had

23 some rocky financial times at KPFT, in the midst of that, KPFT just

24 finished its best ever fund drive in the history of the station.

25 I think that's worth congratulations, and congratulations to

0010

1 the general manager.

2 So, basically, we did a number of things in the

3 Finance Committee. We had, as I say, a very sobering

4 discussion about income projections. While we are doing well

5 and meeting our budgets, there are real concerns about our

6 ability to generate the kind of income that we need to see

7 our strategic plans realized. And after a long discussion

8 of, among other things, the questionable future for SCA

9 earnings, the always questionable question of CPB funding,

10 the committee asked for a study to be prepared before the

11 next board meeting of -- of the full range of potential

12 alternative income generation -- generating plans.

13 We created a committee that consists of myself,

14 Frank Millspaugh, Micheal Palmer, with staff Pat Scott and

15 Lynn Chadwick, to prepare this study and bring it to

16 the Finance Committee discussion. Among other

17 things, we will look at a fuller analysis of the

18 potential of income from affiliates using the Ku down link,

19 look at the archives, look at income-generating projects

20 at other public radio stations, and anything else that the

21 committee can come up with between now and June. And we will

22 have a fuller discussion then and a full report for the

23 board.

24 We then looked at a number of budget

25 modifications and were presented with two that you have

0011

1 before you. The first was a proposal from the controller and

2 the new general manager at KPFA. We had been concerned since

3 the close of the last fiscal year about deficits at KPFA, and

4 with the change in management felt in the early months of

5 this year, that the budget was not realistic and needed to be

6 looked at carefully.

7 Sandra spent some time at the station and a new

8 budget was presented to us which you have before you. And

9 basically, in the fourth column is the adjustment being made

10 to the budget to bring it in line both with reality and to

11 balance it. So we have allowed a -- some changes in income

12 based on projections where income is going with the station.

13 They're a little off proven revenue, but all parties are

14 confident that the station will be able to make these goals

15 on income, and then there were some cuts on the expense side

16 as well as increase in development expenses to generate some

17 more funds.

18 And I think that's it on that.

19 I'll do the full report, and then on the budgets,

20 particularly if people have questions, other board members

21 have questions, there will be an opportunity to do

22 that before you vote on it. So that's one modification.

23 The second is the national program

24 fund, and as people may remember, the first

25 budget submitted had an approximately

0012

1 71,000 hole in it, a deficit that was

2 to be raised hopefully by grant money. Because of both

3 the ability to cut some costs on national programs

4 and income coming in already from affiliates beyond

5 what we had projected and beyond what is needed to cover

6 costs, Gail Christian has been able to reduce that

7 hole to 34,821. So that is the new budget submitted,

8 basically. It's an improvement of the bottom line, that

9 34,000 will need to be raised from grants or further cuts

10 will happen. So that budget will in the end zero out.

11 The third budget modification that

12 we approved in a conference call but got final

13 figures on yesterday -- was a budget change for KPFT.

14 Basically we have added 32,000 to listener support. They are

15 projecting, although the amount is off proven revenue -- As I have

16 just stated, fund drives are going very well. And Pat,

17 Sandra, and Garland felt that this adjustment was justified

18 and very much needed. As people will remember, the budget that

19 we passed was very tight, and there has been some staffing --

20 some restructuring of staffing, et cetera. And this money

21 was needed to cover expenses. So the new budget being

22 submitted is page -- I don't know what number or page it is,

23 but it says "KPFT" at the top.

24 And you'll see the budget, second column is the

25 budget you approved. And the third column is the -- And the

0013

1 fourth column is the new FY '98 budget. The budgets for WPFW

2 and KPFT will be sent to the Finance Committee within the

3 next month reflecting the inclusion of last year's deficits

4 that were not available at the time the budgets were passed.

5 So we're basically approving those budgets with those items

6 added.

7 We also approved a change in the national office

8 budget to cover the staffing changes when we split the job

9 previously held by Dick Bunce into two positions, and made

10 the budget adjustments, again approved at a Finance Committee

11 meeting. And that budget is in your board packet under the

12 national office budget.

13 We had a brief report from WBAI -- on the WBAI

14 move, from Pat and Valerie. I'm pleased to report that the

15 move is on schedule and on budget. Both Valerie and Pat are

16 optimistic that it will stay on budget and on schedule and

17 very excited about its development.

18 I gave a very brief report on investment.

19 Basically, we determined that the Finance Committee has not

20 been on top of our investments as we should, and discussed

21 whether or not to create an investment committee. Given the

22 other committee responsibilities of the board right now, and

23 other priorities, we are -- we've created a small

24 subcommittee of the Finance Committee to oversee our

25 investments. At this point, it's Ken Ford and myself, and we

0014

1 will prepare a report for the Finance Committee before the

2 next finance meeting in June.

3 We had a brief conversation about our continuing concern about

4 the transmitter situation at KPFK. However, there is good

5 news that they have been approved to go into Santa Barbara

6 with their signal, and this is both reaching new audiences

7 which is very exciting and has the potential for new income for the

8 station.

9 And, lastly, the auditor's report is in

10 draft form. We will get the final report shortly and we will

11 have a meeting with our auditors at the next meeting.

12 MS. BERRY: Questions for the chair of the Finance

13 Committee and board members concerning any of these matters?

14 MS. ROSS: Just one. On the national program fund --

15 and you mentioned that the deficit would be made up with

16 grant income. It appears that they have already raised

17 better than 28-, $27,000 of new income? Is that true,

18 too? If so, that should be noted and they should be

19 congratulated.

20 MS. MAKELA: Yes.

21 MS. ROSS: So they have $34,000 more to go to meet this

22 budget, but --

23 MS. MAKELA: That's right. And part of what had been

24 raised was through these affiliates. At the last board

25 meeting, Gail presented the idea of using the

0015

1 Ku down link thing to attract affiliates and to increase the

2 affiliates subscribing to Pacifica, and this strategy had

3 been untested. We've now tested it, and it's successful and

4 it's looking like it will be a real potential income

5 generating program, as well as a spreading of Pacifica programs in

6 the country. And we're already generating money for the

7 national program fund beyond what her projections were. And

8 that was partly what offset this deficit.

9 MS. ROSS: Need to watch that. Good news.

10 MS. MAKELA: We now have a development director and

11 grants have been applied for, so that we are optimistic this

12 34,000 will be made up.

13 MR. ROBINSON: Just a couple of quick points relating

14 to finance, both deal with the budget, as well as the revenue

15 side and the expenditure side. We talked at the last meeting

16 and I -- my thrust is, I'd like the whole board to be able to

17 have some discussions on both the expenditure, as well as the

18 revenue side of the budget.

19 One of the problems with the budget format that

20 you have right now is that there is no capital budgeting that

21 appears in the budget or it appears under peculiar names. And

22 there is no budgeting by activity. So we really can't

23 discuss the potential for revenues that Pacifica faces.

24 There was a very, very good report by

25 Ms. Christian that talked about some of the issues pertaining

0016

1 to the archives and the production of tapes. And I think it

2 would be helpful for us as a board to understand the

3 potential for some of the fund-raising activities. Related

4 to that, at the last meeting, I had asked, and I was told

5 that we would have an updated policy document done on what

6 our fund-raising policies are. I believe that in order for

7 Pacifica to not simply stay even with expenses but to grow,

8 which I think should be a part of the strategy, we have to

9 find ways to make more money. And I think we have to look at

10 what our fund-raising policies are.

11 The press packet which Mr. Glass prepared for us

12 had an interesting article by Matthew Lazar, who is a

13 supporter or a member from the Bay Area, who talked about the

14 extent to which Lou Hill and the early managers of Pacifica

15 did have some very strong ties to corporate foundations. And

16 my suggestion is that one of the things that we should look

17 at, without destroying the founding ideology of Pacifica, is

18 whether or not there aren't some alternative revenues for us

19 to pursue in that direction. So I really feel a discussion

20 would be helpful.

21 Additionally, and one of the reasons I think

22 that capital budgeting is important, is that we see that

23 after having been two years in the new facility on Champlain

24 Street, WPFW will not be able to grow after their lease

25 expires in a couple of years. And one of the things that

0017

1 happened was, we were committed not only to leasing the space

2 and moving into the space, but paying a very high rate for

3 the build-out for space that we really can't move out of

4 after our five years.

5 So I think one of the things that this board

6 needs to be doing in the future related to finance on a major

7 basis, not just within the Finance Committee, is look at some

8 of these policies that really have global effect for the

9 budget and the direction of some of the stations.

10 MS. BERRY: Before I let June say whatever she'd like,

11 the foundation does have a funding policy which is a document

12 that we passed 1993. I wasn't here. But there is a Pacifica

13 Foundation funding policy that I was given in a book when I

14 was appointed chair. So that does exist.

15 Secondly, the last item that you mentioned about

16 the building at WPFW, that came up in the -- 50th anniversary

17 as one of the items that might be put on the list.

18 And then I'll let June answer your first item

19 about looking at revenue streams.

20 Anything else you want to say?

21 MS. MAKELA: Well, I mean, the whole issue -- I guess

22 one issue is whether -- how to have whole board discussions.

23 I think perhaps we need to alert the rest of the board about

24 the agenda for the Finance Committee meeting and maybe invite

25 everyone from the board to come to certain Finance Committee

0018

1 meetings, and/or when we have the study, for example, that

2 we're working on which is going to talk about exactly that

3 income streams as widely studied as we can, then we could

4 make this a full board discussion and figure out how to do

5 that without simply duplicating the discussion.

6 The issue for actual budgets for activities has

7 been raised, and we are expecting by October when the

8 new financial computer management program is up and

9 running, that we are going to be able to solicit exactly

10 that, and it's been raised by other people that we'll be able

11 to get activity budgets, particularly for budgets for actual

12 national programs and discrete activities within the stations

13 and be able to analyze better where we're raising money and

14 not. And I agree with you and this has been a concern of the

15 Finance Committee. So hopefully we will have more

16 flexibility with financial reporting and be able to really do

17 analysis. So I appreciate your comments.

18 MR. ROBINSON: Would it make sense to have a larger

19 board discussion about financial policy?

20 MS. BERRY: May I answer that?

21 When the report is given to us by the

22 committee -- and I am asking specifically that the task force

23 that you set up consider the questions raised specifically by

24 Rob, when we get that report, the board will have a

25 discussion. Okay?

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1 MR. ROBINSON: That's a good answer. Thank you.

2 MS. BERRY: An information discussion.

3 MS. BROOKS: I just want to check. Did all the new

4 members get a book of bylaws and everything? I mean, I gave

5 them out at the last in Washington. Did the new members get

6 a -- No. So we'll make sure that they get that.

7 MS. BERRY: Yes, Mike?

8 MR. PALMER: I wanted to say that in the two and a half

9 years that I've been sitting in on the Finance Committee

10 meetings as an alternate, none of the budgets were in as good

11 a condition as they are today. This is probably one of the

12 first meetings where we didn't have to entertain some type of

13 emergency situation or some situation where money was being

14 requested for an unexpected reason. And I think

15 congratulations and just some acknowledgment of this fact is in order

16 with the managers, the staffs, and volunteers, paid, from the top to

17 bottom, something is happening that things are in a somewhat

18 better condition today. And I think that needs to be said.

19 I also think that the audience growth and the

20 listener sponsors are a sign of the times, you know? The

21 world in America is doing a little bit better overall and

22 we're benefiting as well. But I also think that as the

23 Finance Committee for the Pacifica Foundation, that we ought

24 to undertake a stab, at least, at a three-year budget, if not

25 even a five-year budget, in a way that would incorporate some

0020

1 of the things we know, like the anticipated and projected SCA

2 revenues under revenue streams that we know about. And then

3 also begin to look at what we do know for the next several

4 years so that maybe this can become a more orderly process

5 and we can control things -- not control things from the

6 Finance Committee, but anticipate a little bit better. And I

7 don't know how to initiate that process through Sandra's

8 office, but I think we really ought to give that a shot, and

9 I would be more than happy to undertake that as well.

10 And the other thing I wanted to say is, on this

11 group of people that's going to be looking at other areas

12 where we might generate revenue, latent revenue streams,

13 we'll say, I'd be more than happy to initiate that with a

14 memo and circulate it and be the one to originate the

15 conference calls to the people that are on the committee, and

16 we'll do that promptly.

17 MS. MAKELA: Thank you.

18 MS. BERRY: The only other point -- Does anyone else

19 have a point to raise?

20 The only other point I would raise is that I

21 agree with what you said, Micheal, about trying to set as a

22 goal having longer term budgets than one year so that people

23 will have some sense of what's going to happen in the out

24 year even if it changes.

25 I also think there ought to be an effort to give

0021

1 more flexibility to managers. But maybe this system,

2 Solomon, which I am not familiar with, I am told will

3 generate information concerning expenses and transactions and

4 the like. And I have asked the Finance Committee chair, the

5 treasurer, of course, to engage me in some way in

6 understanding this and what can be generated, because once we

7 have a fix on what's been happening and feel assured about

8 it, we may be able to go with longer budgets and may be able

9 to give more flexibility to the managers which I think is

10 desirable.

11 Any other comments? Okay.

12 Could I get a motion to accept the report of the

13 Finance Committee?

14 MS. NASATIR: I so move.

15 MS. BERRY: Can I get a second?

16 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Second.

17 MS. BERRY: Further discussion?

18 All in favor, indicate by saying aye.

19 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

20 MS. BERRY: Opposed?

21 So ordered.

22 Thank you very much.

23 The next item on the agenda is the

24 report of the council of chairs, given by Charlie McClung

25 because we're here in Los Angeles and he's the chair of the

0022

1 LAB in Los Angeles, and that is the normal procedure. We

2 want to welcome you and we'd like to hear your report.

3 MR. MCCLUNG: Well, I wasn't aware that I was going to

4 be giving a report today.

5 MS. BERRY: Well, you may say anything you'd like to

6 say. That's what the report is.

7 MR. MCCLUNG: Well, let me say this, that I think the

8 council of chairs is a good idea. We've met once by

9 telephone conference call since, I think, the last Pacifica

10 national meeting. That took place about a month ago, I

11 think. And we discussed the -- the board -- local board

12 policies that have been under discussion now for about 18

13 months by this board. And I think the -- the discussion is

14 spirited and I compliment the chair for her direction in

15 that. And I think we provided our guidance directly to you,

16 so I don't think it's necessary for me to reiterate that

17 because you're on that committee, and there's probably

18 another agenda item that focuses on that particular point

19 later.

20 But I do want to say to everyone, I think that

21 something like maybe three years ago, the idea was hatched to

22 have the council of chairs and to integrate the local

23 advisory boards into this process. And I think it's a very

24 good idea. And I think it's working. And I think that the

25 local chairs have a very good perspective and can add a lot

0023

1 to this board, and that input is happening now. And I

2 congratulate the group, you know, for doing so.

3 One thing that I would add is, I don't know

4 whether it's policy or if we've decided quite yet what the

5 role of the local chair should be at these meetings. I know

6 the report is on the agenda, and I'm giving it, I guess. But

7 I think it would be useful in the future to have the board

8 packet delivered in advance to the chair of the signal area

9 where the meeting is going to take place so that the person

10 who's in my position would have a more useful contribution.

11 I mean, I'm happy to sit here and listen, but obviously if I

12 haven't reviewed what you all have reviewed before this

13 meeting, I'm basically just a listener, although I can

14 provide input or comment wherever anybody wants it.

15 I would suggest that, perhaps as only a

16 suggestion, the local chair be given the board packet and

17 perhaps be invited to a specific committee meeting, if there

18 is one, that seems like maybe the board is understaffed --

19 you know, we don't have enough folks in one committee? You

20 all will know what that committee is. Invite the local --

21 Like if we go to Houston next time, invite the local chair to

22 come and sit at the -- whatever the open committee would be

23 where we need some bodies to help. And that will evolve but

24 further integrate what we're already trying to do here, which

25 is a good idea, and I think we should continue to do it.

0024

1 MS. BERRY: Does anyone have any comments?

2 I think those are good suggestions apart from

3 some reason why we shouldn't do it, and I will take it under

4 advisement, and consider how it should be done. And I thank

5 you very much.

6 Let us go -- This sort of segues us into the

7 report of the Board Development Committee. Because it's the

8 Board Development Committee that has the LAB policy and

9 review. And let me just say before we start that, as I

10 recall in the council of chairs meeting, there was one major concern

11 from one particular chair about the issue of staff being on

12 the LAB. And there were other concerns about the role of the

13 LABs and whether LABs would be doing something

14 really important or not important. And I think all

15 these issues are going to be addressed in your report.

16 But I remember those as the two basic issues that came

17 out of the council of chairs meeting on the

18 subject.

19 So please proceed, David.

20 MR. ACOSTA: Thank you, Madam Chair.

21 Back in September in Washington, this board

22 decided to approve four at-large members to this board. We

23 need their talents and skills necessary for

24 a successful 50th anniversary campaign while maintaining the

25 majority level at the local level. Although we decided, we

0025

1 recognized that it would realistically take us about a year

2 to fill these positions, taking into consideration persons

3 with the requisite criteria which was developed in Washington

4 and their willingness to accept.

5 This committee has met several times and we have

6 solicited and received numerous resumes of potential

7 candidates from across the country. Some qualified recruits

8 have declined, mainly due to time constraints; and some

9 recruits have indicated that they're considering it and will

10 let us know soon.

11 One person that accepted and we feel is very

12 qualified to serve as an at-large member to this board is

13 William Lucy. He was elected as international secretary/

14 treasurer, the second highest ranking officer of the American

15 Federation of State, County, Municipal Employees in May of

16 1972. He has been re-elected every four years, most recently

17 in June of '92.

18 He joined the AFSCME international staff in

19 1966 as associate director of the legislative community

20 before serving as executive assistant to the late president

21 Jerry Wurf. He's vice president of the AFL-CIO's Maritime

22 Trade Departments and Department for Professional Employees.

23 He served as first vice president of Public Services

24 International. In addition, he was on the commission on

25 skills of the American workforce which was established by the

0026

1 National Center on Education and the Economy.

2 William Lucy, who worked closely with Dr. Martin

3 Luther King, Jr., in the struggle for civil rights, is a

4 member of the National Center on Civil Rights. He is the

5 founder of black trade unionists and organization rank and

6 file members dedicated to focusing on the needs of African

7 Americans and minority group workers. Lucy and his wife

8 Dorothea and their children live in Washington, D.C.

9 At this time, I hereby nominate William Lucy.

10 MS. NASATIR: Second.

11 MS. BERRY: Any discussion?

12 I am very pleased that Bill Lucy agreed to be on

13 this board which needs to have a union person on it. He

14 has some significant contacts and is respected throughout the labor

15 the labor movement. So I think Bill, who has

16 been in many protest movements and causes with me,

17 and he and I have gone to jail together about five

18 times and slept on the floor in a building we took over with

19 them turning on the air conditioners and trying to

20 freeze us out, all sorts of things. So he's my brother.

21 And so I'm just very pleased that he agreed, and I

22 told him he couldn't assume he would get

23 elected. So he will be at the next meeting if he is

24 elected.

25 Any other discussion?

0027

1 With hearing none, all in favor indicate by

2 saying aye.

3 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

4 MS. BERRY: Opposed?

5 So ordered.

6 Please proceed.

7 MR. ACOSTA: The second item that we bring before this

8 body are the revisions to the document known as Pacifica

9 Foundation Local Advisory Board. It is a culmination of

10 many, many hours of work from the members of the Executive

11 Committee and the local advisory boards through the council

12 of chairs, as well as members of this committee and Pacifica

13 staff. We feel that these revisions will clarify the role of

14 the LAB member and serve to galvanize the LABs to action, as

15 well as serving to foster a climate of unity and cohesion

16 with management and the national board.

17 At this time, Madam Chair, I move to adopt the

18 revisions to the document Pacifica Foundation Local Advisory

19 Board as stated in this meeting's Pacifica governing board

20 meeting booklet.

21 MS. BERRY: Could I hear a second?

22 MS. NASATIR: Second.

23 MS. BERRY: Discussion?

24 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Yes, I think it's an excellent

25 document that's been long in process and is finally really

0028

1 cohesive and comprehensible.

2 I have only one problem with it. It’s a

3 political problem. That is with the issue of the role

4 of the staff on the local board, the local advisory board, I

5 would emphasize. I know that there is a great concern among many

6 members that having staff on the local advisory board in

7 some manner puts the staff in a superior position, a

8 supervisory or review position of the managers. I think that

9 would be the case if these were local governing boards, but

10 they are not. They are local advisory boards. And advice

11 may come from anybody since advice is not binding.

12 I particularly raise this at this point because

13 we're entering a capital campaign in New York in order to

14 facilitate our union and the campaign move. And the campaign

15 would extend beyond the move, and we hope this would be a

16 precursor and become part of the national 50th anniversary

17 capital campaign. Which I think in all likelihood,

18 New York -- not necessarily the station, but New York as a

19 community will be key to, because there's, you know, so much

20 money there. We're certainly going to be going there for

21 some of it.

22 I can't imagine anything more damaging to such

23 an effort than to re-exacerbate the ill will that exists

24 right now on the part of the staff toward the board,

25 toward management because of the -- because of the union

0029

1 problem that still exists there. Remember, it's been

2 resolved at the other stations which is terrific, but so far

3 we are still suffering from it in New York. And I would like

4 to propose that that section which addresses this issue be

5 tabled and that the rest be approved.

6 MR. PALMER: Could you tell me where that is

7 specifically?

8 MR. BRAMSON: Page 74.

9 MR. PALMER: Where?

10 MS. BERRY: Page 74. Bottom of --

11 MR. BRAMSON: Second box from the bottom.

12 MR. PALMER: Uh-huh.

13 MS. BERRY: It says, "Station personnel may serve as

14 ex officio non-voting members of the LAB."

15 MR. MILLSPAUGH: At present should I -- May I?

16 MS. BERRY: Yes, you may.

17 MR. MILLSPAUGH: At present at WBAI -- and this may be

18 the only place where this is the case -- one hopes at present

19 at WBAI, there is one non-paid staff member who is elected by

20 the non-paid staff to serve on the local advisory board. And

21 there is one paid staff member. To make this change at this

22 time would be, I think, extremely disruptive to the amount of

23 balance and peace that we've -- or at least suspended warfare

24 that we've tried to achieve there to go into this

25 fund-raising -- fund-raising drive and, furthermore, since it

0030

1 has been said that this is the only station that it applies

2 to, it arouses the paranoia that, you know, once again the

3 board is making on --

4 MS. BROOKS: Why is it?

5 MS. BERRY: I was told that the other LABs did not have

6 this problem. At the council of chairs.

7 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Well, now, that's what the people at

8 WBAI think.

9 MS. BERRY: It may be not true.

10 MR. BRAMSON: I just wanted to know what the existing

11 language is. Because the existing language, I don't know

12 whether it addresses the ability of staff people to serve

13 on the local advisory board. The preceding document dated

14 April 11, '97, just says, under "Station Personnel,"

15 "Language to be determined." I would interpret if this was

16 to -- if this was to move and to pass, this would be that

17 station personnel may serve as ex-officio, non-voting, which

18 means that they may serve as voting members. That's the way

19 I interpret this language.

20 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Would you give me that language?

21 MR. BRAMSON: I would interpret this sentence to say,

22 non-voting members to the local area board. Where, in fact,

23 they may actually serve as --

24 MS. BRADFORD: Voting members.

25 MR. BRAMSON: -- voting members.

0031

1 MR. MILLSPAUGH: I interpret this as exclusive.

2 MR. BRAMSON: I do not.

3 MR. MILLSPAUGH: I see.

4 MS. BERRY: Let me recognize Cheryl.

5 MS. BRADFORD: I was going to ask what the change in

6 the language is, but also to say I think that the -- the

7 ambiguous language does need to be clarified.

8 MS. BERRY: The language originally was as Pete

9 said. There was nothing. It just said "language to be

10 determined."

11 MR. ACOSTA: It was silent.

12 MS. BROOKS: It is a point of information.

13 It is silent in this document.

14 It is not silent in the –-

15 What did we decide it was yesterday?

16 MR. FORD: Bylaws.

17 MS. BROOKS: The policies and procedures manual spells

18 out the proportion of paid and unpaid staff that can be on a

19 local advisory board. So this document was silent, but there

20 is another document that is not silent.

21 MS. BERRY: It's a personnel document -- But this document

22 would take precedence over that.

23 MR. MCCLUNG: Let me just follow up on what Roberta was

24 just saying, because it's an overall issue that came up in

25 the council of chairs meeting concerning this current

0032

1 document that we're discussing and how it fits into the

2 documents that have already been approved and passed by this

3 body. And it all answers Pete's question of -- We have

4 adopted and in place standard bylaws for the local advisory

5 boards. They are still in place. They have been approved

6 and are in place at all the stations, and they were approved

7 by resolution of this board.

8 And those bylaws, at page 2, have a very -- I

9 think that's what Roberta was meaning to refer to when she

10 just said policies and procedures have a very -- about a

11 half-page statement about how the staff and personnel in the

12 station can be on the local advisory boards. That's in the

13 current document which is called the Pacifica Foundation

14 Station Board Bylaws last amended in October of 1994.

15 Now, what has to be done is, in implementing

16 these new procedures, we can't just layer them on the old

17 procedures. We have to be explicit about what we're

18 repealing; and if we want to repeal the old bylaws, we can do

19 that, but we need to be explicit in so doing.

20 MS. MAKELA: At a previous meeting, we put on the

21 record that all other documents have -- including we

22 specified local bylaws would be brought in -- must be brought

23 into line with the policies once they're set by the board.

24 MR. MCCLUNG: I agree.

25 MS. MAKELA: So that's something that gets done

0033

1 locally. It's not for us to --

2 MR. MCCLUNG: I'm amplifying that. We have to be

3 explicit and clear that what we're doing right now is

4 amending the existing rules that are governing us, and we

5 need to set someone the task from this board, or a

6 consultant, to go back and unpack that and figure out

7 what's --

8 MS. MAKELA: No, no, that's not what we said. No.

9 MR. MCCLUNG: Well --

10 MS. BERRY: One person at a time, please.

11 Finish, please.

12 MR. MCCLUNG: The point is, if you have an existing set

13 of policies and then you adopt a new set of policies, and

14 then with the idea that you're going to make the old ones

15 conform with the new, that's a very inefficient and

16 potentially confusing and ambiguous way of doing it. It

17 would be like saying we've got a bunch of laws and let's pass

18 a whole bunch of new laws and we won't worry about how they

19 conflict with each other. And I agree with what June is

20 saying, but I think we should do it explicitly now when we

21 pass these new rules and regulations, we should formally

22 amend the old regulations or throw them out.

23 MS. BROOKS: They were thrown out.

24 That's why all this work was done on this.

25 It became very clear when we went through the retreat

0034

1 that local advisory boards cannot have

2 bylaws because they are not governing bodies. They're

3 advisory boards. So the nomenclature of bylaws was

4 inappropriate organizationally. And we went through all that

5 during the retreat and threw that out, and this is the new

6 document.

7 MS. BERRY: It says, "1-26-97, approved by governing

8 board."

9 MS. BROOKS: Right.

10 MS. BERRY: The legislative history is listed at the

11 top. 1-26-97, approved by governing board; 4-11-97, visual

12 changes; 1998, and then now we come to this point. So there

13 was a document 1-26-97, and then there were amendments made

14 after that.

15 MS. BROOKS: All amendments.

16 MS. BERRY: All of which were suggested and they're all

17 in here. So that's an amendment to that document.

18 The key point is, June is saying, if I

19 understand you correctly, that at some point in the past

20 maybe you intend to --

21 MS. BROOKS: Through the retreat.

22 MS. BERRY: Well, it would have had to have been done

23 1-26-97 when this document was approved by the governing

24 board.

25 MS. BROOKS: It was done before this was approved by

0035

1 the governing board. Because we didn't have it yet. We knew

2 that wasn't going to work.

3 MS. TILSON: Also, we consulted with our broadcast

4 attorney who gave us a reading on this, that there is only --

5 there could only be the one set of bylaws by which the

6 organization to run, and that's when the board stepped

7 forward and said, well, then these other bylaws have to go.

8 MS. BROOKS: And we will create a procedures --

9 policies and procedures documents to replace the -- the --

10 What's the word I'm looking for? But the area that was

11 covered by the previously existing erroneously named

12 bylaws --

13 MS. BERRY: So that on 1-26-97, the governing board

14 approved policies governing local station advisory boards.

15 Sometime in advance of that, the governing board said there

16 cannot be bylaws at local stations for the reasons given

17 and that local station, quote, "bylaws," unquote, which were

18 denominated in that way, any local rules may -- would have to

19 conform both to the policies here.

20 What -- As I understand it, today, what we're

21 doing is saying that if this document is passed in this

22 assembly, amendments to the 1-26-97 document which is already

23 in existence, that , the entire document reiterated supersedes

24 anything that was done before in terms of policies governing

25 local station advisory boards and local station advisory

0036

1 boards must act or are expected to act cooperatively because

2 we value them and want them to be effective in conformity

3 with these rules. And whatever is out on the table that was

4 before ought to be in conformity with this.

5 MR. ACOSTA: That's correct.

6 MS. BERRY: Charles, do you have any questions about

7 that?

8 MR. MCCLUNG: Well, what I would -- what I would

9 suggest -- My only disagreement with the way you just

10 summarized it is that the thing that we discuss in and during

11 retreat -- and I was part of the retreat and I was on the

12 national board in those discussions, we've got to be careful

13 when we're dealing with the procedures that are the

14 foundation of the enterprise. We can't be loosy-goosy

15 about it.

16 We had -- I agree completely with Roberta, we

17 had these discussions. But I don't believe -- And if there

18 is a written record that proves me wrong, then I'm happy.

19 But if you're right, then we need to take action on it

20 today. I think the written record will show that there is no

21 resolution of this board doing the repealing process of the

22 old rules. We did say that we would make any old rules

23 conform with whatever new policies we adopt, and all I'm

24 saying is let's follow that previous resolution. Let's be

25 explicit about it and we're going to repeal. Because I'm

0037

1 dealing with this at the local board level. I mean,

2 everybody else is -- there's all these rules floating

3 around.

4 Let's be very, very clear when we adopt these

5 amendments today or adopt this policy today, because I think

6 there is even some disagreement as to whether it was adopted

7 formally back in February of last year -- Let's make all

8 that very, very explicit. Let's, by resolution of this

9 board, repeal clearly the -- any other policy rules, bylaws,

10 whatever that may exist out there up to this point, let's

11 just repeal them. We have the -- This board has the power

12 to repeal it. Repeal them, adopt the new policies, then as

13 of today we'll have complete clarity. We'll be living with

14 one document, not multiple documents. And then we can

15 correct whatever ambiguities we need to correct, as Pete

16 points out, in this document and we don't have to refer back

17 to other documents.

18 MS. BERRY: Mr. Chair, with all due respect as you make

19 your motion to get your report passed, I would suggest

20 that you might want to repeal the language -- to avoid

21 confusion so that no one is confused that these policies

22 supersede all other policies in existence, wherever they may

23 be, by whatever authority, concerning the LABs so that

24 nobody -- anybody who's confused about it -- The other

25 stuff didn't happen on my watch, so I don't have anything to

0038

1 do with that, so if we can just be clear about it, but then

2 we need to go back to the issue that was raised by Frank and

3 raised by Charlie and Pete which was never resolved.

4 How do we want to deal, Mr. Chairman, with the

5 suggestion the language has on page 74 is unclear, and that

6 perhaps it might be saying except as -- may not serve except

7 as ex-officio non-voting members.

8 MR. ACOSTA: We can enter Frank's motion to adopt the

9 rest of the document and table this item, and then we will go

10 back and do research on it and deal with it at the next

11 meeting.

12 MS. BERRY: You can do that or --

13 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Well, my motion is --

14 MR. ACOSTA: Frank, you're the one who said

15 delete this.

16 MS. BERRY: We had a motion on the table. Was there

17 a --

18 MR. MILLSPAUGH: I make a motion to table that.

19 MR. BRAMSON: Second.

20 MR. PALMER: What is the reason that you want to have

21 this one particular section out of all other material?

22 MR. MILLSPAUGH: As I said --

23 MR. PALMER: Just make it simple so I can understand.

24 MR. MILLSPAUGH: I think it will blow the roof off the

25 goddamn place and it will completely damage our efforts to --

0039

1 MR. PALMER: Because you have voting members of the

2 staff on.

3 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Two out of 16.

4 MR. PALMER: I've always been

5 under the impression in Houston we're not

6 allowed to have any voting -- we weren't

7 allowed to have any staff on the board.

8 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Must have been a local choice.

9 MR. PALMER: Garland, could you clarify for me?

10 MS. BROOKS: What was the point you're making?

11 Mike.

12 MR. PALMER: My understanding about why there was no

13 staff on our board was because it was something that was

14 coming from the top of the organization. I think the reason

15 he's saying he wants to table this is because in New York it

16 will create a great deal of difficulty to go into the capital

17 campaign.

18 MR. MILLSPAUGH: It's furthermore a difficulty that I

19 think could well spill over to the national's efforts to

20 raise money in New York.

21 MS. BERRY: Yes, Roberta?

22 MS. BROOKS: Well, make the -- specifically

23 because of this previous document, there has always

24 been the possibility to have non-paid or paid staff on local

25 advisory boards. The

0040

1 governing board can make a decision not to have personnel --

2 station personnel on the governing board.

3 The reason why the Board Development Committee

4 went in this direction was because at this point in time the

5 duties of the local advisory board finally, after all these

6 many years, should be clear. Their duty is to do a needs

7 assessment and program evaluation and assess if the programming

8 serves the needs of the community.

9 The concern of the Board Development Committee

10 is, How does the staff person, who may have a program, may be

11 a programmer of a particular program that may not be serving

12 the community, be objective in going out to the community and

13 getting a real evaluation? It appears to the Board

14 Development Committee that it's a conflict of interest given

15 the duties that are clarified now.

16 I hear your political concerns, Frank. However,

17 I would just say that that's always going to be true at the

18 stations that have paid staff. And people don't look to lose

19 anything. We all know that. But the reason why we came up

20 with this as a compromise is, we're not saying that they

21 cannot be participants. Because we heard the arguments that

22 staff has made that they have information that they can share

23 with the local advisory board that other people don't have.

24 Like I don't know what's going on in the station if I'm on a local

25 advisory board. The staff can bring -- We're just saying

0041

1 they can't be a voting member. They can participate and

2 actively participate. They can be an ex-officio member of a

3 LAB. I am at KPFA -- I talk -- but you can look at the glass

4 half full or half empty. I'm sure the people that are

5 going to look at it as half empty because they lose the

6 voting power, but --

7 MR. MILLSPAUGH: I know what the point is. I really

8 do. I'm simply saying that the values to be realized by

9 making this change are a little bit, you know, theoretical

10 and the -- and the damage being done is very real. And

11 explosive on our board. We are trying to create harmony, not

12 divisiveness in order to do the work that we have to do with the board.

13 I think it would be extremely disastrous at this time to

14 institute such a policy here. It really would cause

15 divisiveness. I am directly opposed to this. I think the

16 suggestion about the language as we see how things progress,

17 I request the Council of Chairs meeting report that perhaps

18 we can consider it down the road. But at this time I oppose

19 it.

20 MR. ACOSTA: One of the things we're trying to do with

21 this document is to clarify the role of the LABs. We need to

22 let the LABs know that they're advisory in nature. And one

23 way to do it -- And I think if they were a governing board,

24 this might be -- I may agree with you on that; but if they're

25 advisory in nature, we need to let them know now they're

0042

1 advisory in nature.

2 MS. BERRY: The advisory boards have very

3 important work to do that is essential if Pacifica is going

4 to be what it should be in the next century. And

5 some of that work isn't being done, not because the advisory

6 board -- some members are in a position of not wanting to do it,

7 it just hasn't happened yet and there are a lot of reasons

8 why. But assessing the educational and considerable needs of

9 the communities and telling us as a governing board what to

10 do so that we can think about programming in an overall sense

11 and the future of this organization, is an essential

12 activity.

13 In my visiting the LABs, I have found in the

14 ones that I've been to, with one exception, most of the

15 discussion was about staff matters. The people either feel

16 that those who are on the staff who were on the LABs, as we

17 were in New York, people who came as staff members to tell

18 about things, and the discussion -- almost the entire

19 discussion ended up being about staff matters and

20 operations with very little discussion or anything

21 having to do with, community needs.

22 And the LAB Chair had great difficulty getting

23 people to focus. We even went to another meeting. It was on

24 an entirely different subject about money, and we spent the

25 entire time on staff. I think there is too much time and

0043

1 energy spent with people trying to help stations or help the

2 staff bring their grievance to get resolved or aired,

3 which just creates tension. One way to handle this, and I

4 said it in New York, is to have the chair to exercise very

5 tight control. And if you have got staff members sitting there

6 and all they do is just keep raising all these issues about

7 staff, that's not what we're here for. We want to do

8 community needs assessment.

9 What are your ideas about that? We want to

10 assess the programming goals, which is crucial. We need that

11 information here. That is your contribution to that, not

12 about why Joe's program should be on and John's program

13 should be off. And so maybe the answer is, it's contentious

14 to not put it in, but to admonish the chairs of the LABs that

15 the expectation is that they will devote themselves to the

16 business at hand and not get bogged down in things that are

17 not their affairs and that we will monitor very closely the

18 LABs to make sure that they stick to their knitting, as it

19 were, and that they will tell the LAB this is what we're

20 about. So maybe if I've got real problems in some of your

21 LABs with this issue, that might be one way to handle it and

22 try to see if that will work.

23 MS. ROSS: Madam Chair, it also seems there is a

24 correlated problem and that is discipline of the staff and

25 their relationship to the LABs too that we have need to

0044

1 address at some future and different point. I don't know if

2 that's to be.

3 MS. BERRY: You mean to --

4 MS. ROSS: In clarifying the relationship on the LABs,

5 it's certainly clear that some instruction is going out to

6 staff in terms of what is their relationship. So they should

7 also not come to meetings bringing all of this stuff as well

8 as the chairs. LABs are being resistant to it and so -- but

9 that's -- that's a staff management problem that I think

10 belongs in a different section, not here.

11 MS. BERRY: If we were -- Loretta, that's a very good

12 point. And if we were to take the tack of taking it out and

13 simply admonishing people and reminding people of their

14 duties, I think you're quite right. And a statement should

15 go forth to staff that this is not something that we're

16 supposed to be bringing over here. You know, there are

17 structures in which you do this.

18 MS. BROOKS: Well, I need to be convinced that it's not

19 a conflict of interest when the program analysis needs

20 assessment and program reporting is going to be coming to

21 us. How am I going to know that the staff person who

22 participated in this needs assessment didn't have a conflict

23 of interest? I just need to be convinced and I'm not.

24 MS. BERRY: Plus their own programming involved –

25 MS. BROOKS: Precisely. Or their buddies'.

0045

1 MS. BERRY: Rob, and then --

2 MR. ROBINSON: I think a continual problem with the way

3 the board and the organization operates is, rather than

4 saying what we want the -- how we want people to work

5 together and what outcomes we're looking for, we talk about

6 what we don't want people to do based upon specific cases in

7 point. I don't think that that's a good way to make policy

8 and I think it adds to the -- the adversarial nature.

9 I think if you want to limit the participation

10 of people, you say that they should recuse themselves from

11 any program discussions at all or at or certainly

12 that which affects their program. Limit the number of volunteer

13 programmers that you have. But it doesn't make sense to me

14 to just say, because it's happened in one case or another,

15 that a volunteer programmer should not participate on a

16 board. If you have to prevent an abuse from occurring, state

17 that. State what it is.

18 MS. BROOKS: I didn't say that the programmer cannot

19 participate on the board. This thing does not say that the

20 programmer cannot participate on the board. He cannot be a

21 voting member.

22 The reason there aren't any examples, this isn't

23 based on what somebody did. No station has ever done program

24 needs assessment.

25 MR. ROBINSON: I don't understand how community needs

0046

1 assessment, which is assessing the needs of the community --

2 MS. BROOKS: -- and the programming needs of the

3 community. Are the programs that are currently there serving

4 your community? And program evaluation and program policy

5 goal evaluation.

6 So what I'm just saying is, we've never done

7 that before. We don't have an example to say, Well, Joe

8 Schmoe had a program or went out to the community and tried

9 to push his or her own show. We're not saying that. We do

10 have a few examples. And all I'm asking for is, convince me

11 that there is not a conflict of interest. And you didn't.

12 MR. ROBINSON: Why is there a conflict of interest --

13 MS. BROOKS: Because --

14 MR. ROBINSON: -- if they recuse themselves?

15 MS. BROOKS: What else is the local advisory board

16 supposed to be doing?

17 MR. ROBINSON: Arguments of what's going on with the

18 station or the staff or whose program came off of the air.

19 MS. BROOKS: That's not what I'm talking about. If you

20 start to do what the board supposed to do, which is going

21 out into the community, doing surveys, finding out if the

22 program needs are filling the needs of the community,

23 evaluating program policy goals, which is your new job as a

24 LAB – that has never been done before.

25 MR. ROBINSON: I understand that.

0047

1 MS. BROOKS: It's your new job. Just tell me why a

2 programmer doesn't create a conflict.

3 MR. ROBINSON: Because, number one, the programmers are

4 the principal connection point between the radio station and

5 the membership of the station. We don't know about that

6 membership unless we talk to programmers. We don't

7 have a sense of where those people are or what level of

8 support they're giving. We only can get that from the

9 programmers.

10 One of our concerns -- and I'm going to make a

11 recommendation for a change in the language -- is that we as

12 a board need to be careful to have a working relationship

13 with the station staff. And I think it would help to have at

14 least one member of the board as a volunteer programmer who

15 can vote, who can work with us in an ongoing basis and help

16 us understand the programming activities as they impact the

17 membership of our station in Baltimore, Washington and

18 northern Virginia.

19 MS. BERRY: With all due respect, no one has yet stated

20 why a programmer cannot do any of the things we have discussed

21 without a vote.

22 No one has explained -- All of the arguments that

23 have been made, if you went back and read the transcript, are

24 about them providing information and being involved in

25 discussions, being able to talk to them, being able to

0048

1 discuss their ideas. No one has yet explained why they need

2 to vote.

3 MS. BRADFORD: I have to say two things: One is that

4 the word staff does not mean that it has to be a programmer.

5 So that's number one. Number two, I think that what New York

6 is raising is the reality of the situation that Pacifica is

7 in. We're all as LAB people well aware of the fact we have

8 no one doing needs assessment because we've been sitting in

9 front of the public getting mud slung at us.

10 So we're really clear on it. So the reason the

11 issue of voting is at this moment important, it's -- Let me

12 see. It's that kind of good faith thing. There's a lot of

13 anger out in all of these stations. I don't -- Well, it's

14 clearly in two of the stations. There's a lot of the

15 conspiracy theory. It's a lot of everything going on. And I

16 see a break from the past, a move to a forward position that

17 we haven't really begun.

18 MS. MAKELA: The next report is how to still move

19 forward. In that moment of trying to break from the

20 contentious past moving to a forward position, you're raising

21 back up an issue that is volatile and moves you back to the

22 past. So that's why I think the vote is a --

23 MS. BERRY: So what you're basically saying and my

24 understanding is without the vote, they can't do all these

25 things like people –

0049

1 MS. BRADFORD: I don't think they would do it.

2 MS. BERRY: If you take away the vote you have, you

3 create a political problem and a team of people being

4 suspicious and angry. Now, such a substantive issue I

5 understand.

6 MR. PALMER: Allowing a

7 staff programmer to vote is what created many of the problems

8 in the past as well. So really we're discussing and at some

9 point you got to break and -- You know, I think with this

10 happening, while it all started two years ago with problems

11 where there were voting staff programmers, it began to create

12 the problems. And that's why I understand the history of

13 this thing is that the whole board's feeling was that it

14 shouldn't be a voting situation. They should be able to give

15 as much input as they like and that's what the language

16 reflects.

17 MS. BERRY: There is only one other thing when I think

18 about this -- I hear you. There still is within the organization

19 an insufficient understanding that LABs have governance power

20 through their representatives on the governing board. It's

21 not that they don't have governing power; they do, because

22 they are on the Governing Board. But the route to governance is not

23 the local advisory board trying to govern,

24 the route is to have clear LAB representatives do the

25 governing when they come here. And there's too much trying

0050

1 to -- as I go around and try to meet with people -- trying to

2 govern or thinking if we didn't get some power here or

3 couldn't, it's because of the history of the LABs exercising

4 that kind of power. They think, "We're somehow losing

5 something" instead of seeing that the representatives are

6 still here at the Governing Board and change didn't take place as

7 to LAB roles in governance.

8 LAB’s are in fact governing. And somehow I think those of you

9 who are from the LABs have to explain that to your LAB. You have

10 power. You have two people from each LAB on this Governing Board, and

11 you don't have to worry about it. If something comes up through

12 the Council and you don't like it, you don't need somebody at

13 the LAB to do it. Your governing board governs and the

14 Council of Chairs has direct access to the governing board.

15 MS. NASATIR: If we don't follow through and ask

16 that staff personnel do not vote, we're saying that the

17 general managers cannot vote and we're saying the staff can

18 vote. I think to be consistent we say staff, which includes

19 general managers, sit on and please -- rather, sit on the

20 board, make comments; but personnel, you don't vote, both

21 personnel and general managers.

22 MS. BERRY: Either they all vote --

23 MS. NASATIR: They all vote or they all don't vote.

25 MS. BERRY: Loretta?

0051

1 MS. ROSS: It's hard for me -- It's hard for me in the

2 midst of all of this to ascertain the will of this board. I

3 really have trouble because I actually do think that conflict

4 is going to be a natural reaction to everything we do as a

5 board. And part of conflict, in my mind, should

6 not be the determinant of our decision-making at this point,

7 because we can do nothing and be in conflict.

8 And so with all due respect to you, Frank, and

9 I'm not saying which way we should decide, but we should

10 decide. Because that is our course. Within the

11 decision to stay true to that course, should be

12 a decision to handle

13 whatever fallout that decision makes.

14 MS. BERRY: I'm going to call for a motion to table.

15 The motion to table is on the floor, the motion to table the

16 section that is on page 74 concerning station personnel.

17 MS. BROOKS: Can I ask for clarification?

18 MS. BERRY: Yes.

19 MS. BROOKS: It could be that we would table because

20 there's so much lack of clarity and we need to talk about it

21 some more until the next meeting. But your vote to table was

22 to table until the day will come at Pacifica when this would

23 not be a problem. Some --

24 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Well, let me say that --

25 MS. BERRY: No. Let her answer. Each person can

0052

1 decide for themselves why they want to table it if they do.

2 I don't know if they do, but I'm just saying we have to move

3 on.

4 So we could either withdraw the motion as the

5 maker of the motion and the seconder can withdraw it, we can

6 have the chair of the committee decide he didn't want this

7 and get somebody to second it, or we can vote on the motion

8 to table. But in any case, we have to move on and the motion

9 to table is on the floor. And in the absence of somebody

10 making another motion, then I would ask all those in favor of

11 tabling this revision indicate by saying aye.

12 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

13 MS. BERRY: Those opposed?

14 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Opposed.

15 MS. BERRY: We need to have a division of the house.

16 All those who are in --

17 MR. PALMER: Did we have all the voting people that are

18 opposed to voting --

19 MR. MCCLUNG: We have everybody that is going to be

20 here.

21 MR. PALMER: Who is not voting?

22 MS. BERRY: All those in favor of tabling, raise your

23 right hand.

24 (Mr. Ford, Mr. Robinson, Ms. Bramson,

25 and Mr. Millspaugh and one other responded.)

0053

1 MS. BERRY: Put your hands down.

2 All those opposed to tabling, raise your right

3 hand.

4 (Mr. Acosta, Ms. Makela, Ms. Ross,

5 Mr. Palmer, and Ms. Nasatir and one other responded.)

6 MS. BERRY: What's the vote?

7 MS. TILSON: Yes, five. Bradford abstains.

8 MS. TILSON: No, six; yes, five; and on abstentions.

9 MS. BERRY: So the motion to table fails --

10 MS. ROSS: So we need a new motion about that.

11 MS. BERRY: -- by a vote of six to five. So therefore

12 it is still there.

13 Mr. Charlie McClung, would you proceed. And do

14 you want to clarify?

15 MS. MAKELA: Before we accept that language.

16 MS. BERRY: And I'm only considering the correction not to act on

17 it, but because I was told it was unclear as to whether staff

18 should serve on the LAB as ex officio.

19 MR. PALMER: Serve as opposed to why not serve.

20 Change -- It's unclear.

21 MS. MAKELA: Can we say "may only serve"?

22 MS. BRADFORD: Just say "serves."

23 MS. MAKELA: "May only serve."

24 MS. BROOKS: Is nobody ambiguous about the general

25 manager serves -- Well, we can do it with "shall."

0054

1 "Station personnel must serve as ex officio --"

2 MS. BERRY: "-- serve as ex officio, nonvoting members

3 of the LAB."

4 MS. ROSS: There is one other point that I do need to

5 reveal is the problem that it makes a reference in this

6 document to the policy manual which articulates what station

7 personnel is. And it is clarified in that document. It's a

8 revision to this procedure. And was it in -- And we all

9 need not being concerned about if we haven't the stuff that

10 was in the old bylaws, which were repealed, that there was a

11 ratio of those numbers of personnel.

12 MS. BERRY: Roberta, the way we would

13 do it is in the total document.

14 It clearly is talking about the repeal of all the

15 preexisting matters that are inconsistent.

16 MS. BROOKS: Articulate at some point what

17 that ratio is of personnel to non-personnel

18 on the LAB.

19 MR. MCCLUNG: Just hold on.

20 Instead of -- We still might want to --

21 MS. BROOKS: We might want to

22 look at it. Or can the board qualify? Are you going to

23 ask about the document and the relevant portions

24 that are not considered by this document be repealed?

25 Can we have those that object to the

0055

1 ratio of personnel to non-personnel on the --

2 MS. MAKELA: Can I just say something?

3 MS. BERRY: I do not think that makes for a difference

4 if we're going to serve as --

5 MS. BROOKS: That's right.

6 MR. ACOSTA: They're not voting members.

7 MS. BERRY: They can all come if they want to. The

8 (unintelligible)

9 (unintelligible)

10 MS. FORD: It would -- I cannot be supporting a

11 position that would table the whole policy if we can resolve

12 it today.

13 MR. BRAMSON: Was the motion seconded?

14 MS. MAKELA: As opposed to tabling it, I want it done.

15 MR. MCCLUNG: There wasn't a second.

16 MR. ACOSTA: I move to adopt the revision to the

17 Pacifica document governing all local advisory boards as

18 stated in this meeting -- that was the Pacifica governing

19 board being referenced here as the section of the policies

20 and procedures manual.

21 MS. BERRY: Is there a second?

22 MR. PALMER: Second.

23 MS. BERRY: And the reason why that position is okay.

24 (Unclear proceedings.)

25 MS. BERRY: Did you hear that?

0056

1 I didn't hear you.

2 Does the record reflect his statements?

3 THE REPORTER: I did not hear Mr. Millspaugh.

4 MS. BERRY: It didn't get reported. So, so it will be

5 the same, so as not to create additional animosity, I will

6 ask you to repeat your motion, please.

7 MR. FORD: My motion was that in the interest of the

8 document is that we table it, the adoption of the policies in

9 order to iron out that part in the document. And supposedly

10 the problems are still -- we still had a little or whole lot

11 if you have consensus. Having a 5,5/4,5 split on the issue

12 is not going to solve the problem. We need consensus, a

13 document we all can live with is the rationale for it.

14 MS. BERRY: Seconded by...?

15 Frank.

16 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Second.

17 MS. BERRY: Discussion?

18 My own view is that the discussion we've had is

19 about one section of the document. It's not about the whole

20 document. So that the point about it being contentious is

21 related to this one revision. I haven't had anybody -- no

22 one has made any comments yet about the other so it is not

23 fair to say that the entire document was determined by a vote

24 of X, Y, Z solely to be contentious. A lot of hard work has

25 gone into this document. We have been working on this like

0057

1 crazy to try to come up with something. And the only issue

2 that was there was this issue. So my only problem is that I

3 don't understand why we would refuse to act on it just

4 because there is one area that people believe is

5 contentious. And then we might urge our colleagues, those of

6 us who feel -- who may feel that that issue was still

7 contentious, despite trying to reconsider our motion on that

8 issue. But I would be -- I'd be -- and our colleagues could

9 be asked, not in good faith -- but it said the entire

10 document would be rejected after all re- --

11 MR. FORD: Rejected, tabled.

12 MS. BERRY: Tabled, yes, which means that we still have

13 some clarity concerning this issue. It's just going to

14 create a muddled situation that will just keep going and

15 going and going and going. I for one am not prepared to

16 meddle with these documents and provisions, all 15. I feel a

17 responsibility to begin trying to clarify all these issues.

18 So would all those of you and your colleagues be

19 willing to do that and then let the rest of the document

20 pass?

21 MS. MAKELA: I guess I just want to support this that

22 we need policies for boards. The boards are in flux as it is

23 and we need policies.

24 And also anything in this organization voted on

25 in the past can be revisited by a board member raising the

0058

1 issue and putting it on the agenda on the meeting. As we have

2 already done on this thing.

3 Personally, I have voted I think five times on

4 the issue of staffs on boards in this organization. I'm

5 tired revisiting something at every meeting because -- well,

6 people have already made the statements. I think we need

7 to -- We've seen this committee do a lot of work. We need

8 to vote on things; and if someone wants to introduce the

9 whole thing or begin at another member, we can.

10 MS. ROSS: Call the question to whether to table the

11 entire document.

12 MS. BERRY: All those in favor of the motion to table

13 the entire document indicate by saying aye.

14 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

15 MS. BERRY: All those opposed to tabling the entire

16 document?

17 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

18 MS. BERRY: Let's have a division of the house.

19 All those who are in favor of tabling of the

20 entire document, please raise your right hand.

21 (Ms. Brooks, Mr. Millspaugh, Mr. Ford,

22 Mr. Robinson, Ms. Bramson, and

23 Mr. Bradford responded.)

24 MS. BRADFORD: I'm still stuck on the question that I

25 asked you before.

0059

1 MR. PALMER: The question is, Would you call?

2 MS. BRADFORD: I'm still stuck and I'm trying to figure

3 out the process.

4 MS. BERRY: We can have a motion on that when we

5 finish, but we have to count the votes on this thing first.

6 MS. BRADFORD: I'm sorry. You're saying that we can

7 vote on this and go back and revisit the thing?

8 MS. BERRY: If any board member wishes to raise a

9 motion and the motion is seconded, then we want to discuss

10 the person's motion. Those are Roberts Rules of Order.

11 That's what I'm saying. Okay.

12 Now, all of those in favor of tabling the entire

13 document please raise your right hand so we can count again.

14 (Mr. Ford, Mr. Robinson, Ms. Bramson,

15 and Mr. Millspaugh and one other responded.)

16 MS. BERRY: Please put your hands down.

17 All of those opposed to --

18 (Mr. Acosta, Ms. Makela, Ms. Ross

19 Mr. Palmer, Ms. Nasatir, and

20 Ms. Brooks responded.)

21 MS. BERRY: Take your hands down, please.

22 What's the vote, please, Mary?

23 MS. TILSON: Were there any abstentions? Yes.

24 So anybody?

25 Yes, five; no, 6; no abstentions.

0060

1 MS. BERRY: So the document is not tabled.

2 Now the floor is open for other motions.

3 MS. ROSS: There was one motion on the floor to accept

4 that -- to accept that amendment and vote on that.

5 MR. MCCLUNG: It's been moved and seconded twice.

6 MS. BERRY: Is there a motion on the floor?

7 Ruling of the chair was that the motion made by

8 whoever I had it -- Frank.

9 MS. MAKELA: Ken and Frank.

10 MS. BERRY: -- was on the floor before your motion.

11 Okay? Okay.

12 In the order of motions, yours was made --

13 Who seconded it?

14 MR. PALMER: I seconded it.

15 MS. BERRY: -- and seconded, so yours is on the floor

16 now for there to be discussion of it.

17 You need to speak, then, clearly. It's on the

18 floor. It's the motion to approve the document.

19 MS. ROSS: Vote.

20 MS. BERRY: With the change.

21 Go ahead.

22 MS. MAKELA: With that language change or did we not?

23 MR. ACOSTA: We did not change it. We left it

24 positive.

25 MS. MAKELA: We took out the word "may" on page 74. So

0061

1 the only amendment in the document is that station personnel

2 serve. We've deleted the word "may" on page 74.

3 MS. BERRY: Cheryl, would you like to speak to the

4 motion or is there anything you want to say?

5 MS. BRADFORD: I don't have a sense here -- I do have

6 a sense of the amount of energy that this board has put into

7 this issue, but I don't have a sense of the

8 organization's polling about it. From the place I come from,

9 it would be problematic. So I think that I'd like to revisit

10 a previous motion to open up for further consideration from

11 other aspects of this organization the technical language

12 here on whether or not ex officio -- on whether or not staff

13 in its broadest sense can serve with the vote. And I would

14 like to attach to that this, that this process be done and

15 maybe even resolved in executive committee and that it does

16 not continue into perpetuity.

17 MS. BERRY: So what you're asking for is an amendment

18 to the motion?

19 MS. BRADFORD: To the motion that was just passed.

20 MS. BERRY: The motion that's on the floor. You're

21 asking if an amendment to the motion which would take out the

22 section on station personnel, return it to the language to be

23 determined, or something like that, and have the -- and have

24 the rest of the document voted on.

25 MS. BRADFORD: Yes.

0062

1 MS. BERRY: And that I then ask the board development

2 committee to reconsider or to review with all discussion what

3 has taken place and everything else in issue once again

4 because of its personnel conflict and other issues. You want

5 to amend the hearing to vote for the document by doing so.

6 MS. BRADFORD: I would also like to say that yesterday

7 in that committee, that word "may" jumped off the page at

8 me. And there were certain personnel discussions and that

9 somehow or another we were very tedious about all these other

10 items. But I walked away not having a sense of what the

11 answer was going to mean. So yes, this is what I'm --

12 MR. ACOSTA: We've taken the word "may" out.

13 MS. BRADFORD: But if we took it out yesterday, I think

14 a lot of this discussion would have happened in the

15 committee. So it didn't go out yet yesterday. We

16 discussed. And so I want to be sure that the entire

17 organization has agreement. So I am asking for what you're

18 saying.

19 MS. BERRY: Could I get someone to second the

20 amendment?

21 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Second.

22 MR. PALMER: Don't we have anything on the board?

23 MR. MILLSPAUGH: We have a motion to amend.

24 MS. MAKELA: Are we speaking to it?

25 MS. BERRY: You can speak to it.

0063

1 MS. MAKELA: I'm just --

2 MS. BERRY: I don't know what is next.

3 Charles?

4 MR. MCCLUNG: I want to speak in favor of Cheryl's

5 motion --

6 MS. BERRY: Amendment.

7 MR. MCCLUNG: -- motion to amend, and I want to add one

8 other reason why I think it's important. There are a million

9 staff people that are members of our local advisory boards

10 who are voting members presently. And I think, when we

11 approve this, which maybe we impartially will, we need to

12 take care and address what we expect as a governing board to

13 happen to those people because, again, if they're a voting

14 member of the board and all of a sudden we tell them we're

15 not a voting member of the board, there are some problems

16 with that. They're a duly elected voting member of the board

17 by the entire process and to all of a sudden say they're not

18 voting members, it's -- It's a New York problem.

19 MR. MILLSPAUGH: That's alleged.

20 MR. MCCLUNG: I got that from (unintelligible). And this Council

21 of Chairs document, it might not be correct.

22 MS. BERRY: I read the union document which was sent to

23 me, and I didn't see anything in there about it. But it

24 didn't mean the issue should be decided one way or the

25 other. I waited to see if it was part of the union contract

0064

1 and, if I'm recalling correctly, I don't think it was.

2 Yes, June?

3 MS. MAKELA: Just in the response to one part of what

4 Cheryl said about soliciting feedback, the fact is that the

5 document, with all of its parts -- has gone out and

6 in and out and in and, again, Council of Chairs has given

7 feedback. So the LAB has given feedback. Staff has given

8 feedback. Various board members have given feedback. The

9 executive committee has looked at -- at least three board

10 meeting have and there is still division. We know (unintelligible)

11 reason you have contention on some issues in this document.

12 On other issues, the new language you have

13 before you reflects input from the Council of Chairs. In

14 some cases we have got input from local LABs. There is a new

15 version that reflects a whole other round of input from all

16 of the stakeholders in our organization. It's not a

17 question of has this been checked and didn't we know that

18 -- but I feel very strongly that we

19 have solicited a broad input and it is now our decision to

20 make.

21 MS. BERRY: Loretta?

22 MS. ROSS: I think if I do speak, it will be to ask

23 June what is at

24 at the heart of her concerns.

25 MS. MAKELA: It is of particular concern to me and I

0065

1 really think if we failed to make a decision on this, we

2 certainly have the facts to revisit the decision. It is

3 their right, but -- but please make a decision. I don't know

4 what else we can get from another source that will make us

5 make a better decision at some future date.

6 I'm speaking against the amendment and speaking

7 to vote on this particular motion.

8 MS. BERRY: I'm going to make one other comment and

9 it's that we vote and we have to move on.

10 MS. BROOKS: This could only be about the earlier

11 amendment to the amendment. But a compromise

12 would be to allow those current station reps to fulfill their

13 existing term, a nonrenewable term so that they're not kicked

14 off, they don't lose their voting power if they've been

15 voting. We could keep them; but it's a non-renewable term,

16 but the term it gets is a special voting, yet non-renewable

17 term. But I definitely oppose the amendment since I think we

18 have to make a decision.

19 MS. BERRY: Therefore, let us vote on the amendment --

20 First, let me ask the maker of the amendment if

21 anything that Roberta says in opposition to the amendment

22 caused you to make any changes to the amendment.

23 MS. BRADFORD: It sounds so --

24 MS. BERRY: So it means that the amendment

25 becomes somewhat --

0066

1 Somebody say the amendment.

2 MS. BRADFORD: There is language read.

3 MS. BERRY: It's a friendly amendment.

4 MS. BRADFORD: Restate.

5 MS. BROOKS: This would be an amendment to the motion.

6 No, it's on a motion to hear.

7 MS. BERRY: So June said it.

8 MS. MAKELA: Hers releases hers.

9 MS. BRADFORD: No, it is.

10 MS. BERRY: She said it. Just a minute.

11 The board accepts Cheryl’s suggestion.

12 MS. BRADFORD: But it's already with you all. Quickly,

13 what we're doing now is we're about to vote. The issue was

14 raised and I'm saying that station personnel can continue to vote in

15 the near term, and I'm saying that I believe that would be an

16 acceptable amendment so we can --

17 MS. BERRY: So how about if the amendment all reads

18 "station personnel may serve as --"

19 "Station personnel serving as ex officio" means

20 serving persons except those who are currently serving

21 members can continue to vote until the end of

22 their terms --

23 MS. ROSS: Seems reasonable.

24 MS. BERRY: -- terms which are on a nonrenewable voting

25 basis.

0067

1 MS. BRADFORD: Would you give it more clarity? Is it

2 people will serve ex officio -- they could not vote at the

3 LABs. Maybe can we can bring it back to the next board

4 meeting.

5 MS. BERRY: So station personnel serve as ex officio,

6 nonvoting members of the LAB except that if currently they

7 were serving as voting members they may continue to -- may

8 retain their vote in the sense -- until their terms expire.

9 Their terms will be nonrenewable on a voting basis. Now,

10 does that clear up "on a voting basis"?

11 MS. ROSS: "As a voting member."

12 MS. BERRY: Their terms shall be nonrenewable as voting

13 members.

14 MS. MAKELA: Just for clarity's sake, instead of

15 "serving currently," "serving as of" and a date. "Serving

16 as of the date of the adoption of this document."

17 MS. ROSS: As of March 1.

18 MS. BERRY: -- all those in favor of the amendment

19 indicate by saying aye.

20 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

21 MS. BERRY: All opposed?

22 Aye.

23 MS. BERRY: Raise your hands, those who --

24 A majority was in favor, but let's get a

25 feel who was opposed to --

0068

1 Palmer and Acosta.

2 MS. BERRY: So ordered.

3 Now, let us vote on the main motion. All of

4 those in favor of approval of this document with the

5 amendment added indicate by saying aye.

6 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

7 MS. BERRY: Opposed?

8 MR. BRAMSON: I do.

9 MS. BERRY: A majority clearly voted affirmatively; you

10 voted negatively.

11 Anyone else negatively? Frank, abstains. It's taken

12 care of.

13 Let us proceed. The next report is a report of

14 the program committee.

15 Meeting come to order, please.

16 (Pause in proceedings.)

17 MR. MILLSPAUGH: You have in the board document,

18 beginning on page 78, the report of the Program Standards and

19 Practices Committee. And at our meeting yesterday,

20 amendments were made to "Recommendations" section, which

21 starts on page 81, and on "Action Steps" on page 82, which I

22 will go through as quickly as I can.

23 Under "Recommendations," "A, Training," in the

24 last sentence should read, The general manager should arrange

25 training meetings with -- should arrange training meetings –

0069

1 Strike the word "regular," insert the word "training." And

2 in the last line, "air and off the air, and to provide

3 community input in the listening assignments," the section

4 should conclude with the word "programming," striking the

5 characterized program type, et cetera.

6 Number C should be retitled "Academic and

7 Professional Assistance,"

8 insert "of professionals in the field

9 and." Should be inserted after the first line of that section.

10 In "Community Needs Assessment," in the third

11 line the word "with" is struck, following

12 words are inserted: "And develop other mechanisms to solicit

13 the opinions of community leadership, et cetera." Striking

14 the word "and cosumers" and adding the word "and

15 experts." In the first bulleted line, the word "for" was

16 struck.

17 The section on reporting. The first paragraph

18 is deleted and replaced by the following: "Number 1, LABs

19 will report their findings and recommendations to their

20 general managers and to the governing board. Item 2, The

21 governing board, as it deems desirable, will give

22 instructions to the national office. Number 3, The national

23 office will instruct the general managers. Number 4, The

24 general managers will report the appropriate programming

25 actions to programming staff and to the listeners."

0070

1 Under "Action Steps" -- Let's see if I can

2 figure this out. Under "Action Steps," number D or letter D,

3 strike the last words "each subsequent board meeting,"

4 substituting words "subsequently on an annual basis." And a

5 letter E is added to the Action Steps, "The governing board

6 to direct national staff to work with LABs to develop

7 resources and how to materials to guide the LABs in the

8 implementation of the above recommendations."

9 MS. BERRY: All right. Could we get a motion to

10 approve the report of the Program Committee?

11 MR. ACOSTA: So moved. And a second.

12 MR. BRAMSON: Second.

13 MS. BERRY: Discussion?

14 MR. BRAMSON: I thought it was a great document. Very

15 insightful, very to the point. I like the fact that you

16 included action steps. I thought it was wonderful.

17 MS. BERRY: All those in favor,

18 indicate by saying aye.

19 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

20 MS. BERRY: Opposed?

21 Abstentions?

22 So ordered.

23 Is there any other report from your committee?

24 MR. MILLSPAUGH: No. That was the entirety of the

25 business that we were able to discharge yesterday.

0071

1 MS. BERRY: Then we want to thank the Program

2 Committee for its work.

3 The next report will be from the 50th

4 Anniversary Committee.

5 MS. BROOKS: Can I just say that we forgot to report,

6 the Board Development Committee, that the name will be changed

7 to the Board Governance and Structure Committee so that

8 people would not be henceforth be confused with the word

9 "development."

10 MS. BROOKS: The 50th Anniversary Committee met

11 yesterday, this is the second time we met. The first time was at

12 the last board meeting. Cheryl Garner-Shaw, who is the

13 new development director for Pacifica, who is back there.

14 Has done a lot of work. She and I had talked and she

15 made essentially a presentation of how we're going to proceed

16 in terms of structure. The time line, the goals and the

17 tasks in general will be presented at the next June meeting,

18 as will a report on with regard to the budget for the 50th

19 Anniversary by June.

20 There will be four -- There will be one board

21 committee that the 50th anniversary -- who will monitor the

22 progress of the 50th anniversary, other committees assist the

23 development committee of the 50th Anniversary Committee when

24 requested, and make sure that there are board members on the

25 other committees which I will henceforth describe,

0072

1 et cetera.

2 The committees that Cheryl had proposed and that

3 we accepted were a Communications Committee -- Now, these

4 are not board committees. These are staff committees, but

5 board members are participating on them.

6 MS. BERRY: No, they are not to serve -- they serve as

7 liaisons.

8 MS. BROOKS: They're liaisons to the full board. They

9 are liaisons, period. And the Communications Committee which

10 is to be chaired by Bert Glass, the national communications

11 director, will develop themes that will be carried forward on

12 a national level, will develop a public relations plan and

13 work with local stations to develop coordinated messages for

14 the media.

15 There will be a Program Committee chaired by

16 Lynn Chadwick and Gail Christian. Gail Christian is the

17 national program director. They will develop an agenda that

18 to be provided for local station access to sustain and kick

19 off the campaign. They will draw from prior research and

20 recommendations and develop a common theme for all the national

21 programming, and are currently developing 50th anniversary spots,

22 100 of them, which will be finished in April.

23 have Loretta Ross is the liaison to the Communications

24 Committee, and Micheal Palmer is the liaison to the Program

25 Committee.

0073

1 And I might also --

2 MS. ROSS: Loretta Ross is a wonderful, wonderful

3 woman.

4 MS. BROOKS: Loretta --

5 MS. ROSS: Ross. She's a good friend of mine, but she

6 ain't me.

7 MS. BROOKS: I do this every time. Excuse me,

8 Loretta.

9 Micheal Palmer will be the liaison to the

10 Program Committee.

11 There will be a Development Committee which

12 Cheryl will to convene. To create consensus on how to proceed

13 redoing budgets, et cetera. I will be the board liaison to

14 that committee.

15 And there will be a Local Station Committee

16 which will be the local 50th Anniversary Committee. All stations

17 will have local activities for major donors. The general

18 manager will be part of that. The local development

19 directors will chair, and at least one LAB representative to

20 the governing board will be included in that local committee,

21 as well as local program director.

22 One more issue. The issue which has not been

23 determined is the decision on final allocations of monies

24 received, but that's going to be worked on at a later time by

25 the committee with recommendations for Cheryl. Okay?

0074

1 MS. BERRY: Could I get a motion to accept the report

2 of the programming committee.

3 MS. NASATIR: I so move.

4 MS. BERRY: Second?

5 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Second.

6 MS. BERRY: Discussion?

7 MR. ROBINSON: I thought at the last board meeting that

8 we -- In regard to the 50th Anniversary Committee, I may

9 just be confused. Is Ms. Garner-Shaw development director

10 for Pacifica, or for the 50th Anniversary Committee, or

11 both?

12 MS. BROOKS: For Pacifica.

13 MS. MAKELA: Both for the time being.

14 MS. BROOKS: For the time being, yes. The decision has

15 been made to put on -- to move to June or July the hiring of

16 the 50th anniversary director who will report to Cheryl.

17 MR. ROBINSON: Because I thought what we had been asked

18 to do at the LAB level was to submit names to be considered.

19 MS. BROOKS: That's still true.

20 MR. ROBINSON: But they should now go to Cheryl

21 directly.

22 MS. BROOKS: I'm glad you brought that up because it's

23 something we didn't discuss in the committee meeting. But we

24 will be actively soliciting names of people who could chair

25 that 50th anniversary campaign. So if you think

0075

1 Cheryl Garner-Shaw in the Pacifica office --

2 MS. ROSS: When we were discussing it last night, I had

3 in mind that this is a paid position.

4 MS. BROOKS: It is.

5 MS. BERRY: Which one?

6 MS. ROSS: The 50th anniversary chair position.

7 MS. BERRY: Any further discussion?

8 Okay. All in favor of accepting the report of

9 the 50^th Anniversary Committee, say aye.

10 BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye.

11 MS. BERRY: Opposed?

12 So ordered.

13 We have exhausted the items on our agenda,

14 unless I am mistaken, except for public comment. That means

15 that we can now take a break, and because there may be those

16 who may be need to check out of the hotel or whatever, but

17 before we do that, let me see if anybody has any future

18 business or agenda item they would like to mention.

19 MS. FORD: One question we were somewhat remiss in

20 reporting. Now, was it in the executive committee you

21 reconstituted or constituted a new committee, Technology

22 Committee?

23 MS. BERRY: Technical committee.

24 MS. FORD: I need to have you appoint people to that

25 committee.

0076

1 MS. BERRY: We now have a technical committee. We now

2 have the people.

3 MR. ACOSTA: Ken Ford, you're the chair, and Andrea

4 Cisco. Peter Bramson, Cheryl Fabio, and Ralph McKnight.

5 MS. BERRY: Anyone else who has the interest in the

6 technical aspects of the broadcasting and you are a member of

7 the board, we would be happy and pleased if you would so

8 indicate, and then I will direct that you be.

9 MR. ACOSTA: Ken Ford, chair, Andrea Cisco,

10 Peter Bramson, Cheryl Fabio, and Ralph McKnight.

11 MR. FORD: One last request. Could we get the staff to

12 send us an updated listing of the board members' addresses

13 and phone numbers?

14 MR. ROBINSON: Oh, yes.

15 MR. PALMER: All the way around.

16 MS. BERRY: Everyone needs to have copies of the

17 updated list for the information on how to get in touch with

18 one another.

19 MS. MAKELA: Can we add their term or have some list of terms?

20 MS. BERRY: Yes, I like that idea. That's a great

21 idea. We should keep track of terms. So could you please

22 list the terms of the board members and when they expire so

23 that people know, because we have to do something.

24 MS. TILSON: We have a separate document.

25 MS. BERRY: So that everybody can see it when it goes

0077

1 out so that we all know and can think about what --

2 Pete.

3 MR. BRAMSON: Can I -- The issue about documentation.

4 I assume we'll see copies before the next local board meeting

5 of the new Pacifica Foundation policy governing local station

6 advisory board which was passed.

7 MS. BERRY: Yes.

8 MR. BRAMSON: It's in two weeks. And to follow that,

9 in regards to the document about the report of program

10 standards, can we also have that so timeliness is good so we

11 can discuss it at the next board meeting?

12 MS. BERRY: How long will it take the staff --

13 MR. BRAMSON: If it can --

14 MS. BERRY: Let's find out. How long will it take the

15 staff to prepare these documents? They're already on the

16 computer so it's a matter of editing them and getting them

17 out, so how long will it take before the board members --

18 MS. TILSON: It depends on the process ultimately in

19 terms of reviewing them. When do you want documents?

20 MS. BERRY: These two documents. What I want is the

21 documents and a draft letter that I can send out with them,

22 which you will give to me, and then I will agree to it and

23 then we'll send it out.

24 MS. TILSON: If I can talk to Frank about the changes.

25 MR. MILLSPAUGH: Sure.

0078

1 MR. BRAMSON: That's great.

2 MS. BERRY: And I'll review them as soon as you give

3 them to me.

4 Yes, proceed.

5 MR. BRAMSON: Next meeting is...?

6 MS. BERRY: Thank you. The next meeting is in June,

7 and the date was changed. But did anybody keep track of what

8 it was? Because I will be out of the country on the days

9 that were originally -- I discussed with Pat.

10 MS. MAKELA: The 12th, 13th, and 14th of June.

11 MS. BERRY: What was it originally?

12 MS. MAKELA: The weekend before that? The executive --

13 MS. BERRY: The 13th and 14th of June. And in New York

14 City. Is the 13th a Friday?

15 MS. ROSS: Saturday and Sunday.

16 MS. BERRY: Then I'll stay home. I do not threaten --

17 I do not challenge the fates. Anyway, 13th and 14th of

18 June.

19 Any other business before we -- Yes.

20 MR. PALMER: What about the meeting after that?

21 MS. BERRY: The following meeting already had a date.

22 September the something? We do not have a date for the fall

23 meeting. We cannot set a fall meeting date because I don't

24 keep my calendar. My assistant does. And I have no idea

25 when I can meet. You can tell the staff that we don't need

0079

1 to do that in this meeting. And I could commit to a date and

2 then when I go back here, they'll tell me I can't do it,

3 so -- so I don't want to tell you a date.

4 So could you please, staff, as you get these two

5 documents out, find out from folks when they are available

6 and then we'll set some dates and send you a notice.

7 The meeting will be where, though?

8 MR. PALMER: Houston.

9 MS. BERRY: In Houston.

10 We're going to break here until the

11 public comment session, and some people may

12 have to leave, but if they do leave,

13 it does not mean they're not interested in the

14 proceedings. It's simply that there are logistical

15 reasons why they have to do so. So let's take

16 a break and promptly begin again at 11:00.

17 MS. ROSS: We had this excellent report on statistics

18 and I was wondering if we were going to have a chance to

19 comment.

20 MR. GLASS: I passed it out from our on-line

21 coordinator -- Sorry, it's late in coming, but it just shows

22 and gives a graph, shows how many people are looking at our

23 WEB site, both the Pacifica sites.

24 MS. BROOKS: How many hits?

25 MR. BURT: It's two -- How many people are looking at

0080

1 the front WEB page, and then how many people -- how many

2 different hosts, or basically like AOL or other types of

3 hosts, are visiting. Those are the two ways.

4 I look at the former statistics. There is a

5 chart showing it. I know it's not on the agenda, so I'm

6 happy to talk to people now about what that means.

7 Also attached to your materials are photocopies

8 that give you an idea of what the new redesigned WEB site

9 looks like that's scheduled to go on-line the next week or

10 two, so -- so that's why it's provided.

11 MS. BERRY: Why don't we take our break before we start

12 discussing airplane schedules. That would be part of the

13 transcript of the meeting. That is not part of the meeting.

14 (Recess taken.)

15 MS. BERRY: Now, going to the public comment portion of

16 the meeting. The board members be in order.

17 First, let me recognize the first person on the

18 list for public comment.

19 Let me also explain the rules. Each speaker has

20 two minutes or less. There will be a response to the

21 speakers at the end of the session by myself. And maybe

22 other board members who wish to have any discussion.

23 The first person to be recognized is First Speaker.

24 Would you please come forward.

25 First Speaker: Where shall I stand? Here?

0081

1 How much time do I have?

2 MS. BERRY: Two minutes.

3 FIRST SPEAKER: Well, I want to repeat --

4 MS. BERRY: I need someone to be a timer. Who will do

5 this? Staff? Somebody. We don't have any staff.

6 MS. TILSON: Yes, we do.

7 Do you want me to be a --

8 MS. BERRY: Please. And let me know when two minutes

9 is up. You can sit there if you want.

10 Go ahead, First Speaker.

11 FIRST SPEAKER: I've been involved with Pacifica and

12 KPFK since the very beginning in the late 1950s. I helped

13 begin the station in a very minor capacity, I assure you.

14 I've had no influence on the station but have given a lot to

15 it over the years. I'm concerned that as, I would say, one

16 of its staunchest reporters and also one of the most

17 conscientious and persistent critics.

18 I have some things, some of which I mentioned to

19 you, Ms. Berry, when you were here briefly three months ago.

20 Number 1, I think that materials before the board, other than

21 severely or utterly confidential, ought to be made available

22 to any and all listeners so they can have some reason and

23 ability to assess what's going on and make intelligent

24 comments and criticisms. Without that, we're sort of in the

25 dark. This used to be in the dark. All materials should be

0082

1 made available well before the meeting on other than whatever

2 is deemed confidential for some proper reason. That should

3 be done immediately, and I urge the board today, before you

4 leave, to take action on that.

5 I've been saying this for some time. Public

6 comment ought to be divided into several sections. There

7 should be a -- agenda items could be raised to the board.

8 Consider this nothing more than that. During the course of

9 the meeting, as appropriate, if by recognition of the chair

10 or appropriate members of the board, be it members of the

11 public, and have input which may be constructive and

12 helpful. This should be acknowledged. You retain control.

13 Point 3, your regular comment period for general

14 open comment is fine. So three different divisions of public

15 comment to be more representative, have more of an impact.

16 Secondly, I think that --

17 MS. BERRY: Your time is up. But I'll give you 30 more

18 seconds.

19 FIRST SPEAKER: We need to have programming

20 criteria, policy parameters clear to all, which don't

21 exist. Policy, not ad hoc kinds of stuff, locally and

22 nationally. You need to have a fair policy how you handle

23 staff, both paid and unpaid, so the waste and the cynical

24 turnoff doesn't continue as it has over the years, people

25 have been treated very poorly.

0083

1 And the same thing about programmers.

2 Programmers who worked for years should not suddenly be

3 dismissed.

4 MS. BERRY: Thank you very much.

5 FIRST SPEAKER: We need dialogue, we need debate,

6 not diatribe.

7 MS. BERRY: Second Speaker, please you're next.

8 Second Speaker: Just a quick -- one quick thing. I keep hearing

9 about local advisory boards doing community needs

10 assessment. The CAB, Community Advisory Board, requirements

11 also say something about advisory boards shall be permitted

12 to review the significant policy decisions rendered by the

13 stations. The quote of Lou Hill's mission, 1951, what KPFA

14 was aiming to achieve, and he was talking about what it was

15 aiming to achieve with reference to the existence in the rest

16 of radio, and he said that the answer of the KPFA project on

17 this point is not necessarily the only good answer but it is

18 explicit. It requires that the people who actually do the

19 broadcasting should also be responsible for what and why they

20 broadcast. In short, they must control the policy which

21 determines their actions.

22 If I may, I'll emphasize that neither a public

23 be damned nor a (unintelligible) enters into this formulation.

24 The problem, you remember, is -- you remember -- Well,

25 anyhow, he goes on and the time is short.

0084

1 The point I wanted to make is that the

2 disfranchisement of what little effect staff could have on

3 this body through their votes on the advisory board has been

4 removed. In the spirit of welfare reform that we watched a

5 year or two ago where people complained that the system had

6 negative consequences as a reason for getting rid of them, I

7 think most people here might have been of the opinion that

8 one of the problems with getting rid of it was nothing's put

9 in its place in return.

10 So I see Ms. Brooks shaking her head no.

11 MS. BERRY: We are not supposed to be responding to the

12 person who is presenting. You're taking up his time, so

13 therefore I extend his time.

14 Please proceed.

15 SECOND SPEAKER: Pardon me. I thought what Hill was

16 talking about was that if you want to have ethical

17 communication, you have to have people have a certain degree

18 of freedom. I would wish that this board would put a certain

19 amount of time in if you feel existing structures were

20 administratively appropriate to allow you to do your job to

21 make sure that the system survives and grows, that you would

22 also put some time into developing policies which ensure

23 that.

24 There are lots of organizational forums which

25 include such things, and I know people have said this isn't a

0085

1 government body. This isn't an educational -- Excuse me, it

2 is an educational institution. I could go on at length if

3 anybody would appreciate getting long diatribes by e-mail.

4 MS. BERRY: We'll respond to all comments at the end,

5 including yours.

6 Says, "Messenger from Save Our Station in

7 New York and KOOP to be read." That's the third item.

8 Is that you? That's Third Speaker.

9 THIRD SPEAKER: I'll read from back here. The group Save

10 Our Station sent this message to me and asked me to read it

11 here, so I will.

12 Thank you, Mary Frances Berry, Pacifica National

13 Board, and all others for listening to our comments. We're

14 sorry we can't attend the board meeting. Hopefully the folks

15 there standing up for community radio had some impact on the

16 tenor and perhaps even influenced our decisions. This

17 weekend, Dr. Berry, we hope they were made in the name of

18 democracy and accountability and uphold Lou Hill's mission.

19 On February 11, Dr. Berry visited WBAI in

20 New York. I'm sure it was a lot to digest in one day. You

21 never really came face to face with the environment and the people

22 involved. Dr. Berry, we hope you, now having been here,

23 understand our concerns about union busting; that is,

24 pursuing the NLRB appeal against the unpaid staff, the gag

25 rule that prevents frequent healthy discussion about station

0086

1 matters on the air, and most importantly, the gradual and

2 severe erosion of democracy and lack of accountability of the

3 station management. We believe that some sort of

4 decision-making process for those who are paying the bills and

5 producing the programs. We hope you are able to understand

6 what is at stake and have done the right thing to preserve or

7 rather resuscitate Pacifica's community radio.

8 A shining example of true community radio is

9 KOOP radio in Austin, Texas. Recently I took the opportunity

10 to visit KOOP radio and observe democracy in action. It was

11 a dramatic contrast to how things are done at Pacifica,

12 WBAI. There was a six-member board of trustees in it

13 initially.

14 MS. BERRY: Your time is up. I'll give you another 15

15 seconds.

16 THIRD SPEAKER: I'll finish.

17 The community board is voted on by the

18 community. The community consists of everyone who has ever

19 donated money, been a volunteer or member of community

20 organization that is served by --

21 MALE SPEAKER: Can I go into my own time with this?

22 MS. BERRY: You can if you choose to.

23 MALE SPEAKER: Since I'm next on the list.

24 MS. BERRY: We start when he starts talking.

25 THIRD SPEAKER: The Program Committee is also selected

0087

1 by the mail ballot. There is no sign-in anywhere. We

2 visited during their fund drive. There was no Home Shopping

3 Club atmosphere. They voted to run their own daily news program sign

4 rather than the contract that was. Given affiliate stations by

5 the Pat Scott regime. KOOP's listeners demonstrated their

6 support for news by donating a record amount of money.

7 Community radio works. Let this be food for

8 thought when you all decide you know what's best. You trust

9 the people to pay up. Let them have a voice. Giving voice

10 to the voiceless is a reality, not a concept. That's the

11 entire message from Save Our Station. I'll leave the Austin

12 message for somebody else to take up their time.

13 I just want to add very briefly my own

14 comments. What's really important here is the basic concept

15 of meaningful community -- the vote that you just took a

16 little while ago regarding the operations and procedures of

17 the local advisory board. In the case of Los Angeles, we

18 only had one advisory board meeting at which these were

19 discussed at all and we didn't have enough time to get to

20 them all.

21 So I would hope that decisions of this import

22 could be made with more input, not just the input of this

23 board, but real community input. And to that extent, I've

24 sent Dr. Berry and your predecessor, Jack O’Dell, copies of

25 our own proposed model bylaws which embody a lot of the

0088

1 principals that we'd like to see in operation at Pacifica.

2 And I've probably used up my time. Thank you.

3 MS. BERRY: Thank you. The next person is

4 Fourth Speaker.

5 FOURTH SPEAKER: This is more of a request than a

6 statement to the board. For the past three years, WBAI

7 staff, all of us have worked very, very hard, and achieved

8 some community radio history. In 1995, we were the first

9 Pacifica station to achieve a $1 million drive. We came back

10 and we did it again in -- Excuse me, 1996. We achieved that

11 again in 1997. And we just finished a winter drive and there

12 were commendations for all of the stations for the good

13 financial shape that we were in. We did it once again in

14 1998. Not only made that goal but, in fact, surpassed that.

15 So I recommend to your attention the fact that

16 WBAI has made community radio history now three times in

17 achieving million dollars membership drives.

18 MS. BERRY: Thanks for reminding us of that. That's

19 very important.

20 Number 5 -- Fifth Speaker is -- It just says Fifth Speaker.

21 FIFTH SPEAKER: Yeah. I have a -- incredible idea that was put

22 forth by this fellow named Grossman. And after thinking on

23 it, I think it can solve a lot of the world's problems. It's

24 quite a statement, isn't it? A lot of the various economical

25 and philosophical systems.

0089

1 And so you guys might want to write down this

2 one statement and think on it for a few days: Is that we,

3 the people, establish into law a ratio of, say, five to one

4 between all management and all the employees of all

5 corporations and companies, and a ratio of, say, ten to one

6 between all owners and all the lowest employees of all

7 corporations. Sounds simple, but if you think on it, it

8 seems to combine the capitalist system with various other

9 systems in a very efficient manner.

10 So I urge you all to write that down on a piece

11 of paper because otherwise you will have forgotten by

12 tomorrow.

13 MS. BERRY: Thank you.

14 FIFTH SPEAKER: Simple but sweet.

15 MS. BERRY: Thank you very much.

16 Speaker Six.

17 SPEAKER SIX: First of all, I strongly object to

18 Pacifica's station managers speaking during this time which I

19 really think should be allotted to those that are not part of

20 Pacifica officially. I think it's outrageous that Pat Scott

21 is not here. This -- She's sick all right. I think that

22 the CPB funds were used initially back in '95, along with

23 Lynn Chadwick's so-called "healthy station" project to coerce

24 those within the progressive movement, and especially amongst

25 you, although many of you may not have been around during

0090

1 that period, you know that some of you are new, to go along

2 with measures to so-called make Pacifica less of a target.

3 There occasionally maybe were some programming

4 errors by certain programmers. That's another issue to be

5 debated at another time, in my opinion. So the CPB funding

6 is continued to be used as a stick by those in the government

7 who are exerting pressure on Pacifica and those within

8 Pacifica who are too cowardly to actually call for what

9 should have been called for as preemptive disconnection from

10 CPB funding, and I believe -- believe it's the only hope that

11 Pacifica has to removing this control mechanism.

12 I believe you're all acquiescing and dishonest

13 in understanding the real nature of what's going on here in

14 terms of controlling Pacifica from powers from the outside.

15 Local advisory boards serve at the discretion of Pat Scott

16 solely. All of you are being dishonest and cowards by not

17 addressing this issue in open meetings.

18 Yesterday, during the open sessions, I was the

19 only one in attendance, other than Wayne who is here

20 now. I can't believe nobody else from the community

21 attended. It was appalling, that especially when you were

22 dealing with the local advisory board rules, especially the

23 new procedures. This is a very -- This is going to go down

24 in history as one of the -- the weakest periods, shameful

25 periods in the progressive movement history in this country.

0091

1 You're all going to be held accountable individually on the

2 record.

3 MS. BERRY: Your time is up.

4 SPEAKER SIX: It's a coup, that's what's happening.

5 And the strong man or strong woman, if she so prefers -- I

6 call her a tyrant, is Pat Scott. You all are intimidated by

7 her.

8 MS. BERRY: Your time is up. I got your point. I

9 heard you. I heard you.

10 Speaker Six, you are out of order. And I

11 heard you. Would you please not abuse the time.

12 Speaker Seven.

13 SPEAKER SEVEN: Speaker Six stole my thunder,

14 but I think I have something to say. He's right. The blood

15 money that you're using to cover our ears and cut our throats

16 from being able to put out information that used to make KPFK

17 worth listening to is the shame of it all. And it is that

18 filthy money from the corporation, from public broadcasting,

19 and everybody on that board is selected by the President of

20 the United States. So you've allowed the White House to use

21 Pacifica as an organization and to control its agenda. You

22 sold out. You did it a decade ago. Maybe not in this room.

23 But that's the history.

24 The whole idea was that you wouldn't have

25 sponsors. You have a sponsor. It's the White House. And

0092

1 you were worried -- you were worried about Dole making

2 threats to take away your money in Congress. So you said,

3 well, we better move to the right. We have to survive. You

4 made a pragmatic judgment. The Congress isn't cutting off

5 your money. They want that as the carrot and a stick and

6 they've used it effectively.

7 I had a token show for five years on this

8 station. I was replaced by a music sound track. At least I

9 was talking about real issues. I don't listen to the station

10 anymore. I really don't. No one has said to me in years,

11 "Hey, Bill, turn on KPFK." It doesn't happen. There would

12 be a time, anytime I'd meet somebody, I'd tell them to listen

13 to the news at 6:00. Those days are over.

14 That isn't by chance one of the greatest threats

15 for information in this country was Pacifica network. It's a

16 natural target. If they're going to go after students'

17 labor, they're going to go after media. And they've gone

18 after you. And they did it with this money. The Corporation

19 for Public Broadcasting funds has compromised you and it's

20 removed the most controversial and outspoken people you had

21 on the air. You have one or two left. And that's for some

22 credibility. But you've been lobotomized, castrated,

23 eviscerated.

24 MS. BERRY: And your time --

25 SPEAKER SEVEN: An outlet that's giving alternative

0093

1 news.

2 MS. BERRY: Thank you very much, Speaker Seven. I got

3 your point and understood it.

4 Speaker Eight. That's who?

5 SPEAKER EIGHT: I believe that everyone in this room would

6 like to see Pacifica content available to a wider audience,

7 and the KU satellites are a worthwhile step in this

8 endeavor.

9 I'm going to give you four serious reasons why

10 this has not already happened: One, out there in the real

11 world I go out and talk to plain ordinary people, and I will

12 say, "Are you acquainted with such and such a program which

13 has been on our local air for 25 years?" 80 percent of the

14 people I talk to are not aware that this programming exists

15 and is available to them.

16 You will not resolve this by passive means. You

17 will not resolve this by urging people to go tell their

18 friends. They're already isolated and cocooned. You need

19 serious community outreach. This need not cost a huge amount

20 of money. It can be done on the cheek.

21 B, second reason why you do not have huge

22 audiences, which would make it possible to tell the CPB to

23 take a hike: I'll spell it. B-o-r-i-n-g.

24 Third point, as long as I've been listening to

25 KPFK, there has been a consistent pattern of sloppiness as to

0094

1 facts. Last week on a so-called news program, I heard a KPFK

2 station personnel say that Saddam Hussein had used biological

3 warfare against Iran. I find this very difficult to

4 believe. I'm not trying to dump on that one person. I'm

5 saying there is a tolerance for sloppiness. This erodes your

6 credibility and you are handing ammunition to the Rush

7 Limbaughs and Newt Gingriches.

8 The reason that I am concerned about this is,

9 out there there is a real world. The multinational

10 corporations are getting a hammer lock on everything, all the

11 markets, all the labor resources, all the natural resources.

12 All the financing are being concentrated. Within the next 14

13 months, Congress will be voting on the multilateral agreement

14 on investments. I assure you, if this passes, the era of

15 governments and political movements being guarantors of

16 individual rights will have peaked and will be in decline for

17 the rest of human history.

18 This is the crux right now. You have chosen to

19 oppose this by using their own techniques, their own power

20 structure, by having a cooperativist system of no

21 accountability, no term limits, no democratic

22 representation. Everything from the top down and

23 concentrating power, making policy among a small number of

24 people, you think that you're using their own techniques,

25 their own strengths against them.

0095

1 MS. BERRY: Your time is up.

2 SPEAKER EIGHT: I'll wrap up very quickly. You can no more

3 succeed in this than I could build a fire out of icicles, and

4 you can't even do the policy of, "Well, we can't beat them,

5 let's join them." NPR has beaten you to that.

6 MS. BERRY: Thank you very much.

7 Speaker Nine.

8 SPEAKER NINE: I've got a statement that was sent to us by

9 KOOP in Austin. It's a short one.

10 We the organizing committee of the Grassroots

11 News Network would like to address the current situation at

12 the Pacifica Foundation born at KOOP of Austin, Texas. In

13 October '97, the GNN was formed in response to the struggle

14 that Pacifica affiliates had to face in regards to the gag

15 rule, Section 4 in the Pacifica contract, that was required

16 of them in order to air Pacifica network news, as well as the

17 undemocratic nature of the Pacifica Foundation.

18 As a democratic coalition of 31 community media

19 organizations, we are concerned that in pro tem policies of

20 Pacifica stations, the community has no voice and is not

21 allowed to participate in any way. A say in what Pacifica

22 does and its stations do.

23 We understand that Pacifica is undergoing some

24 major internal restructuring that includes significant

25 changes in its programming approach. We have learned

0096

1 firsthand that changes are being made that result in

2 concentration of power in the hands of a few managers and

3 board members who are not accountable to the listenership or

4 community at large. These changes ignore the fundamental

5 reason and purpose of community radio.

6 According to Pacifica's own mission and purpose,

7 Pacifica radio belongs to the community and not to its

8 governing board or administration. We stand in solidarity

9 with members of Save Our Station in New York, Free Pacifica,

10 and others who are struggling for just labor contracts and

11 democratic decision-making policies at Pacifica Foundation

12 and its stations. We urge the administration of Pacifica to

13 heed the concerns of the community in all aspects of

14 decision-making.

15 From what I have learned here and what I have

16 experienced going to our local board meetings, both of the

17 statements that were read to you are the highest of irony.

18 Things have gone totally past the money. At our last local

19 board meeting when we had some conversations about the

20 governance changes, the people who were to be here in this

21 meeting representing that board were not at that meeting. I

22 don't care why. It's enough.

23 I've been at this for about eight to ten years

24 now. I've outlasted your predecessor. It just keeps getting

25 worse. I've reached the point where I no longer have a

0097

1 priority in my life of supporting this organization or the

2 local station. I treat it about the same as buying a yearly

3 pass to the national parks or an annual pass to Disneyland or

4 subscribing to KCRW, and --

5 MS. BERRY: Your time is up.

6 SPEAKER NINE: It's going to get that priority in my

7 budgeting from now on.

8 MS. BERRY: This is the end of the --

9 SPEAKER TEN: You didn't call my name.

10 MS. BERRY: What is your name?

11 SPEAKER TEN: My problem with this thing is you

12 got --

13 MS. BERRY: I'm sorry I missed you.

14 SPEAKER TEN: I know. You got 47 percent at large

15 members. About one person away from having a total

16 lock-down, self-perpetuating board. When you get that, you

17 might as well use your corporate boilerplate for the 50 years

18 of Pacifica as a Pacifica fascist at 50, because you're

19 really just about ready to hand the station over to whoever

20 wants to come in and grab it with this kind of structure.

21 If you want real democracy, you got to work from

22 the stations up to have an elected board at the local level.

23 You -- If you don't have that, you're absolute frauds, you

24 have no business being in the progressive movement. You're

25 selling out everything that you may have once believed in.

0098

1 There is a real problem because you're treating not only the

2 stations but the aggressive areas that the station has and

3 the use of its network as a colony. When people get hip

4 to the fact that Pacifica intends to colonize with – with

5 its network the progressive movement, it's over for

6 Pacifica.

7 At this point, I'm getting to the point where I

8 wouldn't mind seeing that happen because you're no longer

9 credible in terms of how your governance has been

10 restructured in this coup that you laid out today. Except it

11 would be -- it would nice if you had some intellectual

12 integrity. It would be nice, but I don't see it.

13 MS. BERRY: Is there anybody I've missed?

14 SPEAKER ELEVEN: I have an analogy I want to make.

15 Remember Ohio State where those students demonstrated against

16 the Secretary of State? It stopped us from bombing the hell

17 out of Iraq. The idea of Pacifica was to get the people

18 there that turned -- It was an embarrassment for the White

19 House and the State Department. But had that show gone the

20 way the government wanted it, there would be tens of

21 thousands, hundreds of thousands of people murdered now.

22 This station has a moral obligation to give the

23 microphone to those people that would be otherwise shouting

24 in the street. I was one of those voices. This man was one

25 of those voices. You no longer allow a heckler on the air.

0099

1 That's the problem.

2 MS. BERRY: Okay. I understand.

3 SPEAKER ELEVEN: Think about it.

4 MS. BERRY: Okay, I will think about it. I've been

5 thinking about it. I think that I appreciate your comments.

6 Some of the suggestions were moot ones.

7 Or in my view they were good ones. I'm going to try to

8 address the comments and see if anybody else wants to in some

9 kind of order.

10 On the first suggestion that we give materials,

11 other than confidential matters or matters that should be

12 confidential and make them available at the board meeting or

13 before, I think that's a very good suggestion. And I think

14 that the staff and -- In fact, I am, if there is no

15 objection from other board members, asking the staff to,

16 when they prepare the board packets, to make sure that

17 there is not something that should be confidential

18 so that people will be able to get packages of

19 information for the board meeting. I think

20 that's an excellent suggestion.

21 The other suggestion about whether people could

22 have public comment that I -- Did I hear any objection?

23 Does anybody have any objection?

24 MS. ROSS: Is there a limit that you're suggesting for

25 that, Chair? Do we make 100 extras --

0100

1 SPEAKER ELEVEN: Copies available.

2 MS. BERRY: Please. Please.

3 MS. ROSS: I'm asking for clarification.

4 MS. BERRY: I'm recognizing Loretta.

5 MS. ROSS: I concur with the spirit of what you're

6 trying to do. I'm asking now about logistics. Should we set

7 a limit or a target for how many? Because I'm concerned

8 about it's damned if you do, if we make ten available and a

9 hundred people show up, it looks like we're trying to show

10 up; but if we make a whole lot, it's squandering resources.

11 It's a lose-lose --

12 MS. BERRY: What they do in all organizations is to

13 make a few copies available at the meeting and people can

14 stand there and look at it. You don't want to make enough

15 copies for the whole world. You can indeed put

16 non-confidential information available on the WEB site too.

17 SPEAKER ELEVEN: Copies on demand. It's as simple as

18 that.

19 MS. BERRY: That's what we --

20 SPEAKER ELEVEN: On the WEB site.

21 MS. ROSS: Excuse me.

22 MS. BERRY: I'm going to address the rest of the

23 comments. I have them all written down.

24 MR. FORD: I was going to suggest that you make

25 probably 20-25 copies available at the meeting site and post

0101

1 everything else on the WEB, that way it will be up there

2 plenty of time on the -- If you're in another part of the

3 country, you'll be able to tap into the WEB site and pull it

4 down and download it.

5 MS. BERRY: We would also have to, as we do the

6 transcript, make a hard copy available at stations for people

7 who don't have computer access. At least one hard copy.

8 MR. FORD: The stations have the ability.

9 MS. BERRY: So we will take that discussion and refine

10 it in whatever way we can do it logistically, and I think

11 it's a good suggestion.

12 The other suggestion about whether indeed people

13 should be able to speak before and during the meeting, I

14 think speaking during the meeting is not possible

15 logistically. Speaking before the meeting,

16 I don't know the answer to that, and I will discuss it with

17 the Executive Committee to see how that logistically

18 would play out; but during the meeting, no,

19 I don't think that would work at all.

20 The other point that was made about the LABs

21 having a responsibility under CPB guidelines to look at

22 policies, the page in the document of the CPB requirements,

23 on page 11, says that, "The board shall review programming

24 goals" -- this is the LABs that we're talking about -- "and

25 the significant policy decisions rendered by the station.

0102

1 And advise the governing board with respect to whether the

2 programming and other policies are meeting the specialized

3 educational needs."

4 The document which we approved today says

5 exactly that. It says the responsibility of the local

6 advisory board is to review significant policy decisions

7 rendered by the stations, advise the board where they are

8 meeting the specialized educational requirements and consult

9 with the stations as determined by the governing board. So the

10 advisory board may make recommendations to the governing

11 board about these matters.

12 So that the power of what the LABs have and the

13 reason why, in answer to another question, the bylaws which

14 were called bylaws, quote unquote, for the local station

15 copies of which, were sent to people, are not in the spirit

16 of the local advisory boards being advisory. They try to

17 exercise governance which is not possible.

18 And the only governance local advisory boards

19 can engage in, and they do have power, is to make

20 sure that they have representatives on this

21 board and to let them act for them in terms of power.

22 And the local advisory boards because of the defeat of

23 the provision that was instituted last year, still

24 have that power on this board so there is no reason

25 to try to make the local advisory board into a

0103

1 governing board when technically you're not supposed to.